4 ms·

helmets are really useful if you are riding slow too, I was pulling out of a driveway, there was a little bit of black ice that I didn't see, my front wheel wen

helmets are really useful if you are riding slow too, I was pulling out of a driveway, there was a little bit of black ice that I didn't see, my front wheel went out from me and before I knew it I was down: could not react, one second I was upright, the next second I was on my side and yes, my helmet was cracked by this fall (hit the side of my head on the cement), if I didn't have it it'd have been a much worse day than the very mild headache I got from it. I really don't understand all these "helmets don't help" folks, having ridden motorcycles and bikes all my life you would not catch me dead without a helmet: a helmet is not an invulnerability cloak but in the end if you fall down and hit your head and you don't have one, you are not going to be in a good place, whether you are going at walking speed or 30mph.

spatulan 11y ago
The reason some are sceptical, is the extra weight and leverage of the helmet is supposed to increase the chance of you breaking your neck in in accident. I have no idea if its true or not.
carlob 11y ago
Then why don't you wear a helmet when you're walking on ice as well? I'm not saying helmets don't work, I'm saying it's not very likely to hit your head at high velocity on the ground if you were going 10 km/h. And if that means you're not gonna ride a bike at all because you forgot your helmet you're probably having a higher risk of cardiovascular disease further down the line than you have of breaking your head now.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Well, I do wear a helmet while skiing - largely because I witnessed an accident where a stationary skier was hit on the head by a flailing T-bar.
- falcolas 11y ago
  Having known someone who died to a head injury from falling down from a standing position; speed matters little, other than giving you more time to react. Just the acceleration from gravity is enough to fuck your head up pretty badly. Head injuries are nothing to take lightly.
- wpietri 11y ago
  > Then why don't you wear a helmet when you're walking on ice as well? Because bikes constrain falls. Millions of years of evolution plus my own personal practice means I'm pretty good at falling safely. But when I am wrapped around a bike, a lot of that goes out of the window. Also, I'd like to see some stats on your "not very likely". In 20 years of adult riding, I've fallen twice at low speeds hard enough to crack a helmet. And that's not counting the time as a kid I knocked myself unconscious on a low-speed ride. > because you forgot your helmet Is this a problem people have? When I'm not riding, I clip my helmet to my bike. This doesn't strike me as a particularly challenging habit to develop. Maybe just keep necessary equipment together? That sounds easier than trying to decide whether the odds are small enough to risk traumatic brain injury.
  - carlob 11y ago
    > Also, I'd like to see some stats on your "not very likely". In 20 years of adult riding, I've fallen twice at low speeds hard enough to crack a helmet. And that's not counting the time as a kid I knocked myself unconscious on a low-speed ride. And in 28 years of both adult and kid riding, with some years totaling over 3000 km, I've fallen several times, even cracked a couple of ribs, but never once hit my head. See that's the problem with anecdotal evidence. > I clip my helmet to my bike Do that in Rome, you'll come back to find none.
    - wpietri 11y ago
      > See that's the problem with anecdotal evidence. I'm not the one who said "not very likely". I'm not offering my story as evidence, just as an explanation for why I'd like evidence. > Do that in Rome, you'll come back to find none. I was speaking of the "I am going riding now" case. In Rome can you leave your bike outside overnight? In SF you can't, so people store bikes and helmets indoors. In which case, I'd submit that storing them together is a pretty good idea. Helmet theft might be a problem here in the "I am already out riding" case. Where I worry about that here, I clip my bike to my bag, so again it's not a "I forgot my helmet" problem.
- Angostura 11y ago
  > I'm not saying helmets don't work, I'm saying it's not very likely to hit your head at high velocity on the ground if you were going 10 km/h. Because if you fall over while walking, you're likely to manage to get your hands down before you head hits the ground. You have nothing to lose by getting your hands down quick. By contrast, when you run into problems while cycling, your instinct is to try and regain control of the bike. You don't immediately drop the handlebars, You keep your hands on the bars and try to steer/brake. Moreover you're likely to go over sideways and only one hand tends to be able to break the fall. A fall from a bike and a fall from your feet is a massively different thing.
the_af 11y ago
> my helmet was cracked by this fall (hit the side of my head on the cement) I'm not sure whether helmets really work, and just to be on the safe side I almost always wear one, but I seem to remember one European biking site -- possibly mentioned here in HN... I forget -- where the author argued that helmets are designed to crack so that it seems they work. But, he argued, whether they crack or not bears no relation to protecting from head injuries; the crack simply leaves you satisfied that the helmet "saved" your life. The article seemed convincing. Sadly I cannot remember where I read it.
- nkassis 11y ago
  They are definitively designed to crack as that's a core way for it to absorb the energy of the hit. Similar to how a car crumbles in an accident. Otherwise it's just transferring the kinetic energy straight to your head. This is also why you should replace helmets after a fall and every few years since the material they are made of degrades with age.
  - the_af 11y ago
    I don't remember if the following link was the site, but in any case it makes similar points (disclaimer: as far as I can tell, this seems to be a "helmet skepticism" advocacy site, so take it with a grain of salt): http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html > "It's not a simple matter to draw conclusions about the benefit a broken or deformed helmet might have provided in a crash. However, the fact that serious injury to unhelmeted cyclists is as rare as helmet damage is common, suggests that most of the claims of benefit from damaged helmets are likely to be exaggerated." > "The next time you see a broken helmet, suspend belief and do the most basic check – disregard the breakages and look to see if what's left of the styrofoam has compressed. If it hasn't, you can be reasonably sure that it hasn't saved anyone's life." The point seems to be that anecdotes of the type "my helmet worked and saved my life, see? It's cracked" are not conclusive.
- falcolas 11y ago
  If a helmet cracks, it's absorbed energy, cracking is simply how it's designed to dissipate that energy. Whether it cracks or not, it should be replaced when it absorbs energy from a fall.
wpietri 11y ago
Definitely. The two accidents I've had where helmets have been helpful have been at low speeds. In one, somebody stopped suddenly in front of me while I was novice rider getting used to new brakes. The other, I hit a wet tram rail while making a turn. The problem wasn't total velocity, it was me falling over while being conjoined with a bike. (I also had one accident at speed, but there the bike and I parted ways and I supermanned through the air and kept my head up on landing.) The study persuades me not at all for a few reasons. 1) it's Canada, 2) it's all of Canada, and 3) it's only in-patient hospital stays. I'm biking in a US urban area. I know that Canada's automotive death rates are lower, and I'm happy to believe that's due both to Canada's famed niceness and to a more European attitude toward infrastructure. I might also not bother with a helmet tootling along some leafy Canadian rural road, but when dealing with California's drivers in an environment that's mostly cement and metal, thanks, I'll take the helmet. I also get the theory that in-patient hospital stays might be a good index to help decide the public benefit of helmet laws. But I don't think my helmet kept me from two hospital stays. I think it kept me from two concussions. Given the long-term cognitive effects of even nominally mild brain injury, I'm again sticking with the helmet. Those here who think themselves so smart that a) this study proves it for them, or b) they have smarts to burn are welcome to go without.
frabbit 11y ago
I'm sorry, but you really have no basis for saying that "if I didn't have it it'd have been a much worse day than the very mild headache I got from it."
sopooneo 11y ago
I think we can have it both ways. For a given rider, on a given trip, any fall will be safer if they are wearing a helmet. However, statistically, it is argued, many falls won't be much safer. And in fact, if they feel compelled to wear a helmet, the person won't ride at all. And many of the rides the don't take would be ones where the likeliest falls are likely to not be helped much by a helmet. I subscribe to the above reasoning. A population may be healthier if not compelled to wear helmets when cycling. But for me, I never ride without one. Ever. Short trips, long trips, commutes to work. I have mine with me now.

spatulan 11y ago

The reason some are sceptical, is the extra weight and leverage of the helmet is supposed to increase the chance of you breaking your neck in in accident. I have no idea if its true or not.

carlob 11y ago

Then why don't you wear a helmet when you're walking on ice as well? I'm not saying helmets don't work, I'm saying it's not very likely to hit your head at high velocity on the ground if you were going 10 km/h. And if that means you're not gonna ride a bike at all because you forgot your helmet you're probably having a higher risk of cardiovascular disease further down the line than you have of breaking your head now.

arethuza 11y ago
Well, I do wear a helmet while skiing - largely because I witnessed an accident where a stationary skier was hit on the head by a flailing T-bar.
falcolas 11y ago
Having known someone who died to a head injury from falling down from a standing position; speed matters little, other than giving you more time to react. Just the acceleration from gravity is enough to fuck your head up pretty badly. Head injuries are nothing to take lightly.
wpietri 11y ago
> Then why don't you wear a helmet when you're walking on ice as well? Because bikes constrain falls. Millions of years of evolution plus my own personal practice means I'm pretty good at falling safely. But when I am wrapped around a bike, a lot of that goes out of the window. Also, I'd like to see some stats on your "not very likely". In 20 years of adult riding, I've fallen twice at low speeds hard enough to crack a helmet. And that's not counting the time as a kid I knocked myself unconscious on a low-speed ride. > because you forgot your helmet Is this a problem people have? When I'm not riding, I clip my helmet to my bike. This doesn't strike me as a particularly challenging habit to develop. Maybe just keep necessary equipment together? That sounds easier than trying to decide whether the odds are small enough to risk traumatic brain injury.
- carlob 11y ago
  > Also, I'd like to see some stats on your "not very likely". In 20 years of adult riding, I've fallen twice at low speeds hard enough to crack a helmet. And that's not counting the time as a kid I knocked myself unconscious on a low-speed ride. And in 28 years of both adult and kid riding, with some years totaling over 3000 km, I've fallen several times, even cracked a couple of ribs, but never once hit my head. See that's the problem with anecdotal evidence. > I clip my helmet to my bike Do that in Rome, you'll come back to find none.
  - wpietri 11y ago
    > See that's the problem with anecdotal evidence. I'm not the one who said "not very likely". I'm not offering my story as evidence, just as an explanation for why I'd like evidence. > Do that in Rome, you'll come back to find none. I was speaking of the "I am going riding now" case. In Rome can you leave your bike outside overnight? In SF you can't, so people store bikes and helmets indoors. In which case, I'd submit that storing them together is a pretty good idea. Helmet theft might be a problem here in the "I am already out riding" case. Where I worry about that here, I clip my bike to my bag, so again it's not a "I forgot my helmet" problem.
Angostura 11y ago
> I'm not saying helmets don't work, I'm saying it's not very likely to hit your head at high velocity on the ground if you were going 10 km/h. Because if you fall over while walking, you're likely to manage to get your hands down before you head hits the ground. You have nothing to lose by getting your hands down quick. By contrast, when you run into problems while cycling, your instinct is to try and regain control of the bike. You don't immediately drop the handlebars, You keep your hands on the bars and try to steer/brake. Moreover you're likely to go over sideways and only one hand tends to be able to break the fall. A fall from a bike and a fall from your feet is a massively different thing.

the_af 11y ago

> my helmet was cracked by this fall (hit the side of my head on the cement) I'm not sure whether helmets really work, and just to be on the safe side I almost always wear one, but I seem to remember one European biking site -- possibly mentioned here in HN... I forget -- where the author argued that helmets are designed to crack so that it seems they work. But, he argued, whether they crack or not bears no relation to protecting from head injuries; the crack simply leaves you satisfied that the helmet "saved" your life. The article seemed convincing. Sadly I cannot remember where I read it.

nkassis 11y ago
They are definitively designed to crack as that's a core way for it to absorb the energy of the hit. Similar to how a car crumbles in an accident. Otherwise it's just transferring the kinetic energy straight to your head. This is also why you should replace helmets after a fall and every few years since the material they are made of degrades with age.
- the_af 11y ago
  I don't remember if the following link was the site, but in any case it makes similar points (disclaimer: as far as I can tell, this seems to be a "helmet skepticism" advocacy site, so take it with a grain of salt): http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html > "It's not a simple matter to draw conclusions about the benefit a broken or deformed helmet might have provided in a crash. However, the fact that serious injury to unhelmeted cyclists is as rare as helmet damage is common, suggests that most of the claims of benefit from damaged helmets are likely to be exaggerated." > "The next time you see a broken helmet, suspend belief and do the most basic check – disregard the breakages and look to see if what's left of the styrofoam has compressed. If it hasn't, you can be reasonably sure that it hasn't saved anyone's life." The point seems to be that anecdotes of the type "my helmet worked and saved my life, see? It's cracked" are not conclusive.
falcolas 11y ago
If a helmet cracks, it's absorbed energy, cracking is simply how it's designed to dissipate that energy. Whether it cracks or not, it should be replaced when it absorbs energy from a fall.

wpietri 11y ago

Definitely. The two accidents I've had where helmets have been helpful have been at low speeds. In one, somebody stopped suddenly in front of me while I was novice rider getting used to new brakes. The other, I hit a wet tram rail while making a turn. The problem wasn't total velocity, it was me falling over while being conjoined with a bike. (I also had one accident at speed, but there the bike and I parted ways and I supermanned through the air and kept my head up on landing.) The study persuades me not at all for a few reasons. 1) it's Canada, 2) it's all of Canada, and 3) it's only in-patient hospital stays. I'm biking in a US urban area. I know that Canada's automotive death rates are lower, and I'm happy to believe that's due both to Canada's famed niceness and to a more European attitude toward infrastructure. I might also not bother with a helmet tootling along some leafy Canadian rural road, but when dealing with California's drivers in an environment that's mostly cement and metal, thanks, I'll take the helmet. I also get the theory that in-patient hospital stays might be a good index to help decide the public benefit of helmet laws. But I don't think my helmet kept me from two hospital stays. I think it kept me from two concussions. Given the long-term cognitive effects of even nominally mild brain injury, I'm again sticking with the helmet. Those here who think themselves so smart that a) this study proves it for them, or b) they have smarts to burn are welcome to go without.

frabbit 11y ago

I'm sorry, but you really have no basis for saying that "if I didn't have it it'd have been a much worse day than the very mild headache I got from it."

sopooneo 11y ago

I think we can have it both ways. For a given rider, on a given trip, any fall will be safer if they are wearing a helmet. However, statistically, it is argued, many falls won't be much safer. And in fact, if they feel compelled to wear a helmet, the person won't ride at all. And many of the rides the don't take would be ones where the likeliest falls are likely to not be helped much by a helmet. I subscribe to the above reasoning. A population may be healthier if not compelled to wear helmets when cycling. But for me, I never ride without one. Ever. Short trips, long trips, commutes to work. I have mine with me now.