8 ms·

Can We Take Political Correctness Seriously Now?

22 points by dankohn1 11y ago

xlm1717 11y ago
Seeing how the same author has been trying to sound the alarm on political correctness at least since the beginning of this year, it seems unlikely that we'll start taking political correctness seriously any time soon. Questioning political correctness is the realm of right-wing kooks anyway.
- dang 11y ago
  > right-wing kooks The HN guidelines ask you to edit name-calling out of your comments here, so please do. In this case the last sentence could be eliminated, since that's all it does. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - sea2summit 11y ago
    You triggered, bro?
    - loco5niner 11y ago
      I for one, appreciate the attempt at civility, bro.
      - sea2summit 11y ago
        Sure, but the irony is killing me. I forgot, HN is a safe space.
        AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        It's intended as a safe space for thoughtful discussion, yes. If that cramps your style, well... maybe that's telling you something.
        sea2summit 11y ago
        I'm pretty disappointed you guys are missing all my jokes. Someone got called out for name calling in a discussion about the problems with political correctness!
        AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        Ah, I see. My sarcasm detector wasn't calibrated well enough. But HN does have guidelines against name-calling. None against any particular ideas, though. HN "censors" harsh attitudes and personal attacks, not ideas that are "unacceptable". So it's not particularly like political correctness.
        loco5niner 11y ago
        Whoops. Guess I missed it too.
        powera 11y ago
        Jokes are also against the HN guidelines.
        sea2summit 11y ago
        Methinks the commenters in this thread are exactly the PC problem those who support free speech are fighting against.
        dang 11y ago
        Of course jokes are not against the HN guidelines.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        deciplex 11y ago
        They aren't, but I've seen you call out users in the past basically for making a joke that you either didn't catch or that you didn't think was funny enough to justify the impropriety that went along with it. I wouldn't say it's a big problem or anything, but it does happen.
        loco5niner 11y ago
        It's not about "safe places" (a concept that I am not a fan of, btw), but about raising the level of interaction. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(computer_programmer)#Graham.27s_hierarchy_of_disagreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(computer_programm...
- loco5niner 11y ago
  I question political correctness, and I'm right wing. According to you, I must be a kook.
  - seansmccullough 11y ago
    That so intolerant to not tolerant questioning political correctness!
- JadeNB 11y ago
  It seems that your first sentence saying is saying that we don't (and won't) take political correctness seriously, and then your second sentence is saying that everyone but right-wing kooks already takes it seriously. I must be mis-reading, but I can't see how.
- paulgayham 11y ago
  Stop blaming it on the right. I'm left, and I agree that this shit needs to fuck off. Identity Politics is the worst bunch of assholes that I'd quite like to not be lumped in with.
mizchief2 11y ago
Fuck no
peterhadlaw 11y ago
Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing. Those who oppress it know not it's true beauty.
robobenjie 11y ago
relevant pg essay: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html This is a complicated topic, but my take is that the downside of political correctness is a potential for a loss of absolute correctness, while the benefit is respect and erring on the side of not doing harm. Those things need to be balanced and we have do decide as individuals and as a culture how we make those trade offs.
- omonra 11y ago
  There is a huge potential downside from political correctness. When ideas are not allowed to compete on their intellectual merit (because someone finds them offensive), everybody loses.
paulgayham 11y ago
No.
msie 11y ago
I like tuhaybey's take on it (in the comments).
deciplex 11y ago
It never ceases to amaze[1] me that whenever the left gets close to getting their voices heard in any broad sense, you start seeing these sort of polemics attacking them for not practicing absolute tolerance and freedom of speech whenever and wherever they assemble. Yes, there are intolerant assholes on the left, same as with any large group of people, and PC/SJW culture is fucking stupid, no doubt. But compared to our national media in the large, it is small potatoes. Maybe students are sick to death of the status quo eating their future and wrecking their society and poisoning the Earth. They have grown up in a popular culture totally dominated by a right-wing media machine, wholly owned by the ruling class and which has successfully kept the Overton window so damned narrow we can hardly have a conversation anymore. It is completely understandable that they would want journalists to get the fuck out, rather than letting them get away with yet another hit piece attacking them on style rather than substance and completely ignoring their message. Look at the coverage of anything from OWS to Ferguson if you're curious why the left wants to tear the national media limb from rotten limb. [1] depress
- newhnuser1 11y ago
  > popular culture totally dominated by a right-wing media machine Are you like a crazy delusional person?
  - deciplex 11y ago
    No.
  - dang 11y ago
    > Are you like a crazy delusional person? Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do this. It's helpful to read the following to find out what this site is looking for in comment threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- mcphage 11y ago
  > whenever the left gets close to getting their voices heard in any broad sense, you start seeing these sort of polemics attacking them for not practicing absolute tolerance and freedom of speech whenever and wherever they assemble. A lot of people want to see what happens when this particular culture group gets power. What will they do, how do they behave? > wholly owned by the ruling class and which has successfully kept the Overton window so damned narrow we can hardly have a conversation anymore. It is completely understandable that they would want journalists to get the fuck out So the right wing is preventing anybody from having a conversation—but it's okay because you don't want one anyway? > if you're curious why the left wants to tear the national media limb from rotten limb And replace it with what, exactly?
ende 11y ago
What is political correctness but censorship?
malandrew 11y ago
Slavoj Zizek is probably the philosopher best known for show how political correctness is an overall bad thing for society. His stuff is worth checking out.

22 points by dankohn1 11y ago

Seeing how the same author has been trying to sound the alarm on political correctness at least since the beginning of this year, it seems unlikely that we'll start taking political correctness seriously any time soon. Questioning political correctness is the realm of right-wing kooks anyway.

dang 11y ago
> right-wing kooks The HN guidelines ask you to edit name-calling out of your comments here, so please do. In this case the last sentence could be eliminated, since that's all it does. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sea2summit 11y ago
  You triggered, bro?
  - loco5niner 11y ago
    I for one, appreciate the attempt at civility, bro.
    - sea2summit 11y ago
      Sure, but the irony is killing me. I forgot, HN is a safe space.
      - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        It's intended as a safe space for thoughtful discussion, yes. If that cramps your style, well... maybe that's telling you something.
        sea2summit 11y ago
        I'm pretty disappointed you guys are missing all my jokes. Someone got called out for name calling in a discussion about the problems with political correctness!
        AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        Ah, I see. My sarcasm detector wasn't calibrated well enough. But HN does have guidelines against name-calling. None against any particular ideas, though. HN "censors" harsh attitudes and personal attacks, not ideas that are "unacceptable". So it's not particularly like political correctness.
        loco5niner 11y ago
        Whoops. Guess I missed it too.
        powera 11y ago
        Jokes are also against the HN guidelines.
        sea2summit 11y ago
        Methinks the commenters in this thread are exactly the PC problem those who support free speech are fighting against.
        dang 11y ago
        Of course jokes are not against the HN guidelines.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        deciplex 11y ago
        They aren't, but I've seen you call out users in the past basically for making a joke that you either didn't catch or that you didn't think was funny enough to justify the impropriety that went along with it. I wouldn't say it's a big problem or anything, but it does happen.
      - loco5niner 11y ago
        It's not about "safe places" (a concept that I am not a fan of, btw), but about raising the level of interaction. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(computer_programmer)#Graham.27s_hierarchy_of_disagreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(computer_programm...
loco5niner 11y ago
I question political correctness, and I'm right wing. According to you, I must be a kook.
- seansmccullough 11y ago
  That so intolerant to not tolerant questioning political correctness!
JadeNB 11y ago
It seems that your first sentence saying is saying that we don't (and won't) take political correctness seriously, and then your second sentence is saying that everyone but right-wing kooks already takes it seriously. I must be mis-reading, but I can't see how.
paulgayham 11y ago
Stop blaming it on the right. I'm left, and I agree that this shit needs to fuck off. Identity Politics is the worst bunch of assholes that I'd quite like to not be lumped in with.

mizchief2 11y ago

Fuck no

peterhadlaw 11y ago

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing. Those who oppress it know not it's true beauty.

robobenjie 11y ago

relevant pg essay: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html This is a complicated topic, but my take is that the downside of political correctness is a potential for a loss of absolute correctness, while the benefit is respect and erring on the side of not doing harm. Those things need to be balanced and we have do decide as individuals and as a culture how we make those trade offs.

omonra 11y ago
There is a huge potential downside from political correctness. When ideas are not allowed to compete on their intellectual merit (because someone finds them offensive), everybody loses.

paulgayham 11y ago

No.

msie 11y ago

I like tuhaybey's take on it (in the comments).

deciplex 11y ago

It never ceases to amaze[1] me that whenever the left gets close to getting their voices heard in any broad sense, you start seeing these sort of polemics attacking them for not practicing absolute tolerance and freedom of speech whenever and wherever they assemble. Yes, there are intolerant assholes on the left, same as with any large group of people, and PC/SJW culture is fucking stupid, no doubt. But compared to our national media in the large, it is small potatoes. Maybe students are sick to death of the status quo eating their future and wrecking their society and poisoning the Earth. They have grown up in a popular culture totally dominated by a right-wing media machine, wholly owned by the ruling class and which has successfully kept the Overton window so damned narrow we can hardly have a conversation anymore. It is completely understandable that they would want journalists to get the fuck out, rather than letting them get away with yet another hit piece attacking them on style rather than substance and completely ignoring their message. Look at the coverage of anything from OWS to Ferguson if you're curious why the left wants to tear the national media limb from rotten limb. [1] depress

newhnuser1 11y ago
> popular culture totally dominated by a right-wing media machine Are you like a crazy delusional person?
- deciplex 11y ago
  No.
- dang 11y ago
  > Are you like a crazy delusional person? Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do this. It's helpful to read the following to find out what this site is looking for in comment threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
mcphage 11y ago
> whenever the left gets close to getting their voices heard in any broad sense, you start seeing these sort of polemics attacking them for not practicing absolute tolerance and freedom of speech whenever and wherever they assemble. A lot of people want to see what happens when this particular culture group gets power. What will they do, how do they behave? > wholly owned by the ruling class and which has successfully kept the Overton window so damned narrow we can hardly have a conversation anymore. It is completely understandable that they would want journalists to get the fuck out So the right wing is preventing anybody from having a conversation—but it's okay because you don't want one anyway? > if you're curious why the left wants to tear the national media limb from rotten limb And replace it with what, exactly?

ende 11y ago

What is political correctness but censorship?

malandrew 11y ago

Slavoj Zizek is probably the philosopher best known for show how political correctness is an overall bad thing for society. His stuff is worth checking out.