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Higher level thinking is model building from sensory input. I have not seen any system out there that learns to reason about 3D space by just going around touch

Higher level thinking is model building from sensory input. I have not seen any system out there that learns to reason about 3D space by just going around touching/feeling things and then incorporating that feedback with other senses. Everything starts with a model built-in and then tweaks parameters through some kind of optimization mechanism. Which is fine but that's not really intelligence in the sense of coming up with novel models and incorporating it into pre-existing models.

eli_gottlieb 11y ago
Are you trying to express the difference between supervised and unsupervised learning?
- dkarapetyan 11y ago
  I'm expressing the difference from going from 2D Euclidean geometry to 3D Euclidean geometry to Non-Euclidean geometries as in the development of all of those models and theories throughout the history of mathematics. That's what I mean by model building. There currently is no such artificial system that can go through the process of developing and evolving such models and systems. So reasoning/thinking/consciousness or whatever people want to call it must account for such model building. All current research is basically just tweaking something until it fits good enough in a very limited domain. There is no explanatory power in any of the current research.
  - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
    Eh, before saying that, go ahead and read some recent research. http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~rgrosse/phd-thesis.pdf http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~rgrosse/phd-thesis.pdf, for example.
    - dkarapetyan 11y ago
      Nope, still comes with a theory of probability built in and can't generalize it.
vectorjohn 11y ago
Absolutely not. You can, in your house, build a robot that uses sensory input to construct a map of its surroundings and then navigate that map. Check out various algorithms to do so, such as [1]. Model building from sensory input is very simple, and in my opinion only tangentially related to consciousness. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D*
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dkarapetyan 11y ago
  Oh ok. In that case ya we got all this figured out. I mean there is D*. Thanks for clearing up all the confusion. /sarcasm
  - vectorjohn 11y ago
    Well, your whole argument is that we couldn't do it, while plainly we can. So, answer with /sarcasm all you want, but it isn't a good argument.
wyager 11y ago
> model building from sensory input This is one of the basic activities AI researchers have been solving for years. In many cases, this is not even a hard problem.
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
Humans don't really do that either. For humans, the model is bound externally in parental memory, media influences, and impersonal record systems. But it's very much there as external programming. Baby humans don't very well when it's missing.

eli_gottlieb 11y ago

Are you trying to express the difference between supervised and unsupervised learning?

dkarapetyan 11y ago
I'm expressing the difference from going from 2D Euclidean geometry to 3D Euclidean geometry to Non-Euclidean geometries as in the development of all of those models and theories throughout the history of mathematics. That's what I mean by model building. There currently is no such artificial system that can go through the process of developing and evolving such models and systems. So reasoning/thinking/consciousness or whatever people want to call it must account for such model building. All current research is basically just tweaking something until it fits good enough in a very limited domain. There is no explanatory power in any of the current research.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  Eh, before saying that, go ahead and read some recent research. http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~rgrosse/phd-thesis.pdf http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~rgrosse/phd-thesis.pdf, for example.
  - dkarapetyan 11y ago
    Nope, still comes with a theory of probability built in and can't generalize it.

vectorjohn 11y ago

Absolutely not. You can, in your house, build a robot that uses sensory input to construct a map of its surroundings and then navigate that map. Check out various algorithms to do so, such as [1]. Model building from sensory input is very simple, and in my opinion only tangentially related to consciousness. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D*

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
dkarapetyan 11y ago
Oh ok. In that case ya we got all this figured out. I mean there is D*. Thanks for clearing up all the confusion. /sarcasm
- vectorjohn 11y ago
  Well, your whole argument is that we couldn't do it, while plainly we can. So, answer with /sarcasm all you want, but it isn't a good argument.

wyager 11y ago

> model building from sensory input This is one of the basic activities AI researchers have been solving for years. In many cases, this is not even a hard problem.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago

Humans don't really do that either. For humans, the model is bound externally in parental memory, media influences, and impersonal record systems. But it's very much there as external programming. Baby humans don't very well when it's missing.