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Last bit of the title is "...Payment Service Like Venmo" Seems to be the latest push by Apple to integrate Apple Pay into some sort of payments ecosystem by fo

Last bit of the title is "...Payment Service Like Venmo" Seems to be the latest push by Apple to integrate Apple Pay into some sort of payments ecosystem by force. Should be interesting to see if there is any compelling reason to use Apple's solution over Venmo which has a huge incumbency advantage at this point.

feld 11y ago
> huge incumbency I've never heard of Venmo, nor have any of my tech friends.
- archmikhail 11y ago
  You probably don't live in the bay area.
  - kingnothing 11y ago
    Which means they don't have a huge incumbency.
    - ethanbond 11y ago
      I'm at school in upstate NY. Venmo dominates here as well. It's doing pretty well, but honestly is an unimpressive product.
      - roymurdock 11y ago
        Interested to hear why you think it's unimpressive. It just works, and it adds a fun, social element to payments without being creepy or annoying about it. The key to the product is the strength of the network. They got all the major banks and CC providers to sign onto the platform, which was unprecedented. So from that standpoint, it's a fantastic product.
        ethanbond 11y ago
        I don't think it's bad at all. You're right that it does exactly what it says it does and that's cool, but that doesn't make it impressive. It's not particularly well designed, I don't know why there's a social dimension to it, etc. I don't think every product needs to be impressive and I don't mean it as a dig on Venmo. Just that if there IS a way to fill this niche in an "impressive" way, Venmo isn't it. Edit: Actually Square Cash is pretty damn impressive. Emailing cash instantly with no need for accounts? That's baller.
  - smeyer 11y ago
    It's not just bay area. I'm in Boston, and around here everyone under 30 seems to know of (and mostly use) Venmo, and many technically inclined older folk.
  - rconti 11y ago
    I live in the Bay Area and this is the second time I've heard of it. Nobody I know uses it. Square, occasionally.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
> Should be interesting to see if there is any compelling reason to use Apple's solution over Venmo which has a huge incumbency advantage at this point. insert chuckle here Perhaps because Apple has incredible resources compared to Venmo, no one over 30 uses Venmo, and because Apple can easily integrate with the ACH system to enable these transfers. If Apple were so inclined, they go so far as to have a banking subsidiary that was a stakeholder in the ACH system, thereby allowing them to shape the protocol currently being worked on to allow real time ACH transfers.
- roymurdock 11y ago
  Paypal owns Venmo, so they have a fair amount of weight to throw around, especially in the payments/ACH space.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Doesn't Apple generate more profit per quarter than Paypal does all year?
    - roymurdock 11y ago
      Sure, but you might have made the same argument with Facebook when it launched "Poke" (2012) and "Slingshot" (2014) in order to compete with newcomer Snapchat, and we see how that turned out due to poor execution and the incumbency factor. http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-vs-snapchat-what-is-the-difference/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-vs-snapchat-w... https://gigaom.com/2014/09/04/facebooks-slingshot-experiment-failed-fast-now-its-just-another-snapchat-clone/ https://gigaom.com/2014/09/04/facebooks-slingshot-experiment...
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
matthewmacleod 11y ago
Seems to be the latest push by Apple to integrate Apple Pay into some sort of payments ecosystem by force. I'm not sure why you'd consider this to be 'by force' – surely having a large market share, and offering a decent experience, are enough reasons for an ecosystem to develop because users want it?
- roymurdock 11y ago
  surely having a large market share Having a large market share of what, the smartphone market? It's the users of the peer-to-peer payment service/application that they need, and they have 0 of those right now. Venmo already has millions of those users (many of whom who use iPhones) due to a good UX/UI and seamless integration with all major banks/card providers. So what value does apple bring to the table if my network is already set up on Venmo?
  - matthewmacleod 11y ago
    Having a large market share of what, the smartphone market? It's the users of the peer-to-peer payment service/application that they need, and they have 0 of those right now. I think having a large smartphone platform to which you can roll out new features is really useful! There are what – maybe 4-5 million active Apple Pay users? That's a decent chunk of in-built market for the service, assuming it's seamlessly available to them all. Obviously P2P Apple Pay doesn't offer you much benefit if you've already got a working solution to the problem.
    - roymurdock 11y ago
      It is definitely a benefit, but it's a far cry from guaranteed success. I have a trash folder full of 10 or so Apple pre-installed apps and I'm sure many others do as well. Apple P2P Pay will most likely be another one of those for me, which is why I see it as a catch-up play and one they will have to force on the market.
untilHellbanned 11y ago
> Venmo which has a huge incumbency advantage at this point Venmo vs. Apple. I'll take my chances with Apple. Yes I realize Venmo is controlled by Paypal.
happyscrappy 11y ago
There is no friction to use it, Apple already has the credit card info. Paypal should be scared.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  If Apple Pay had UX to pick someone near you also in Apple Pay to transfer funds too.....oh my!
  - happyscrappy 11y ago
    I assume that is exactly what they have in mind.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Can't wait!

feld 11y ago

> huge incumbency I've never heard of Venmo, nor have any of my tech friends.

archmikhail 11y ago
You probably don't live in the bay area.
- kingnothing 11y ago
  Which means they don't have a huge incumbency.
  - ethanbond 11y ago
    I'm at school in upstate NY. Venmo dominates here as well. It's doing pretty well, but honestly is an unimpressive product.
    - roymurdock 11y ago
      Interested to hear why you think it's unimpressive. It just works, and it adds a fun, social element to payments without being creepy or annoying about it. The key to the product is the strength of the network. They got all the major banks and CC providers to sign onto the platform, which was unprecedented. So from that standpoint, it's a fantastic product.
      - ethanbond 11y ago
        I don't think it's bad at all. You're right that it does exactly what it says it does and that's cool, but that doesn't make it impressive. It's not particularly well designed, I don't know why there's a social dimension to it, etc. I don't think every product needs to be impressive and I don't mean it as a dig on Venmo. Just that if there IS a way to fill this niche in an "impressive" way, Venmo isn't it. Edit: Actually Square Cash is pretty damn impressive. Emailing cash instantly with no need for accounts? That's baller.
- smeyer 11y ago
  It's not just bay area. I'm in Boston, and around here everyone under 30 seems to know of (and mostly use) Venmo, and many technically inclined older folk.
- rconti 11y ago
  I live in the Bay Area and this is the second time I've heard of it. Nobody I know uses it. Square, occasionally.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

> Should be interesting to see if there is any compelling reason to use Apple's solution over Venmo which has a huge incumbency advantage at this point. insert chuckle here Perhaps because Apple has incredible resources compared to Venmo, no one over 30 uses Venmo, and because Apple can easily integrate with the ACH system to enable these transfers. If Apple were so inclined, they go so far as to have a banking subsidiary that was a stakeholder in the ACH system, thereby allowing them to shape the protocol currently being worked on to allow real time ACH transfers.

roymurdock 11y ago
Paypal owns Venmo, so they have a fair amount of weight to throw around, especially in the payments/ACH space.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Doesn't Apple generate more profit per quarter than Paypal does all year?
  - roymurdock 11y ago
    Sure, but you might have made the same argument with Facebook when it launched "Poke" (2012) and "Slingshot" (2014) in order to compete with newcomer Snapchat, and we see how that turned out due to poor execution and the incumbency factor. http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-vs-snapchat-what-is-the-difference/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/21/facebook-poke-vs-snapchat-w... https://gigaom.com/2014/09/04/facebooks-slingshot-experiment-failed-fast-now-its-just-another-snapchat-clone/ https://gigaom.com/2014/09/04/facebooks-slingshot-experiment...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]

matthewmacleod 11y ago

Seems to be the latest push by Apple to integrate Apple Pay into some sort of payments ecosystem by force. I'm not sure why you'd consider this to be 'by force' – surely having a large market share, and offering a decent experience, are enough reasons for an ecosystem to develop because users want it?

roymurdock 11y ago
surely having a large market share Having a large market share of what, the smartphone market? It's the users of the peer-to-peer payment service/application that they need, and they have 0 of those right now. Venmo already has millions of those users (many of whom who use iPhones) due to a good UX/UI and seamless integration with all major banks/card providers. So what value does apple bring to the table if my network is already set up on Venmo?
- matthewmacleod 11y ago
  Having a large market share of what, the smartphone market? It's the users of the peer-to-peer payment service/application that they need, and they have 0 of those right now. I think having a large smartphone platform to which you can roll out new features is really useful! There are what – maybe 4-5 million active Apple Pay users? That's a decent chunk of in-built market for the service, assuming it's seamlessly available to them all. Obviously P2P Apple Pay doesn't offer you much benefit if you've already got a working solution to the problem.
  - roymurdock 11y ago
    It is definitely a benefit, but it's a far cry from guaranteed success. I have a trash folder full of 10 or so Apple pre-installed apps and I'm sure many others do as well. Apple P2P Pay will most likely be another one of those for me, which is why I see it as a catch-up play and one they will have to force on the market.

untilHellbanned 11y ago

> Venmo which has a huge incumbency advantage at this point Venmo vs. Apple. I'll take my chances with Apple. Yes I realize Venmo is controlled by Paypal.

happyscrappy 11y ago

There is no friction to use it, Apple already has the credit card info. Paypal should be scared.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
If Apple Pay had UX to pick someone near you also in Apple Pay to transfer funds too.....oh my!
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  I assume that is exactly what they have in mind.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Can't wait!