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My parents were poor immigrants. We didn't die when we got sick, we went to the public hospital and/or went to a cheap doctor who specialized in the immigrant c

My parents were poor immigrants. We didn't die when we got sick, we went to the public hospital and/or went to a cheap doctor who specialized in the immigrant community and had pricing to reflect that. We were taught a certain work ethic by seeing the people around us try to improve themselves and their situation. We didn't go to good schools, but they were good enough and student loans go us into decent state colleges (and later private school via the same loan system). So yeah, your hypothetical hopeless sob story kinda pisses on the many people who rose above economic hardships. Many immigrants rise ahead in the US due to all the opportunity here. Ironically, the minorities we coddle with welfare, political correctness, and never-ending social programs that do next to nothing but drain tax dollars tend to be the ones who don't thrive and degenerate into multi-generation poverty. Maybe the white liberal mid/upper class political thought should focus on jobs and incentives and not-hand wringing about how hopeless everything is. >wealth is randomly moved between people, Everyone I know has a job/wealth via some level of meritocracy. I don't know anyone who randomly ran into money. If money was this easy to get then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The anti-US bias on sites like Reddit and HN is just ignorant. I don't think people appreciate what they have and the praise of places like Russia or China as being better or more free or more economically viable is hilariously ignorant. Or the masive ignorance of how bad Europe's finances and employment situation is in many of its countries, especially places like Italy, Spain, France, and of course Greece. Life is a lot more complex than "omg the US is the worst country ever." Seriously, if you guys want a conversation about oligarchies and inequality then Russia or Brazil are probably the best examples around. The US is very far from those levels of inequality. Pointing this out, sadly, gets you mega downvotes here. I'm curious why this forum needs to have this hysterical and furious anti-US bias all the time? Why are you being socially rewarded by this narrative? Have you ever questioned this narrative the types of people who are constantly selling it to you? Or their motivations?

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
You're never addressing anything, only diverting by baiting about Russia and China and how all criticism of the U.S. is unfounded because "What about country X?" and some rants about the Protestant work ethic. That's not an argument, it's tu quoque. I'm skeptical as to your characterization of Italy, Spain and France. It sounds like you're just observing some macroeconomic forecasts without taking into account societal microfoundations like mobility, legislation and culture. These can make immense differences in ensuring a greater subjective feeling of freedom or a greater real resilience against cyclical factors.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  >some rants about the Protestant work ethic. The person I was replying to was literally telling the successful son of immigrants how hopeless everything is for immigrant families. It isn't a rant, its a anecdote to counter his pessimistic worldview. Its amusing to be told that you don't exist and your experiences are false. Also, I am not diverting, I am suggesting that a conversation about wealth inequality focus on places that have real wealth inequality. Instead its endless college identity politics circlejerking about how the US is the worst nation ever. How nations fall into total political disrepair and terrible economic situations are better conversations to have about places like Russia and Brazil than the US. That is if you actually care to discuss the topic instead of just regurgitating the usual anti-US crap that gets uncritically upvoted here. Its also worth mentioning that the EU nanny/welfare state or the Russian/Chinese autocracy are really the only real alternatives to the US system, so its important to weigh their pros and cons in general when talking about economic systems. I didn't pick those examples willy-nilly.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

You're never addressing anything, only diverting by baiting about Russia and China and how all criticism of the U.S. is unfounded because "What about country X?" and some rants about the Protestant work ethic. That's not an argument, it's tu quoque. I'm skeptical as to your characterization of Italy, Spain and France. It sounds like you're just observing some macroeconomic forecasts without taking into account societal microfoundations like mobility, legislation and culture. These can make immense differences in ensuring a greater subjective feeling of freedom or a greater real resilience against cyclical factors.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>some rants about the Protestant work ethic. The person I was replying to was literally telling the successful son of immigrants how hopeless everything is for immigrant families. It isn't a rant, its a anecdote to counter his pessimistic worldview. Its amusing to be told that you don't exist and your experiences are false. Also, I am not diverting, I am suggesting that a conversation about wealth inequality focus on places that have real wealth inequality. Instead its endless college identity politics circlejerking about how the US is the worst nation ever. How nations fall into total political disrepair and terrible economic situations are better conversations to have about places like Russia and Brazil than the US. That is if you actually care to discuss the topic instead of just regurgitating the usual anti-US crap that gets uncritically upvoted here. Its also worth mentioning that the EU nanny/welfare state or the Russian/Chinese autocracy are really the only real alternatives to the US system, so its important to weigh their pros and cons in general when talking about economic systems. I didn't pick those examples willy-nilly.