6 ms·

Chill out man. First, it could be a bug. Second, no doubt HN is a special place, but it's still just a news forum. Get back to work, go out to play, don't make

by revorad 17y ago

Chill out man. First, it could be a bug. Second, no doubt HN is a special place, but it's still just a news forum. Get back to work, go out to play, don't make this your life. </patronising>

davi 17y ago
I know what you mean but HN has also been a place where like-minded people could identify one another for possible real world collaboration. That's much more than just a news forum.
RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
First of all, yes, I am fully aware that this is just a news forum, and that there's this thing called "real life." Secondly, this is a great resource of both contacts and information. It's made great because of the quality of people here, and the time they take to submit, comment, and vote. Without that time from people with busy lives, HN will become rather non-special. I'm pointing out that at least one person here now feels, because of a stated policy, that their time is undervalued, so I'm thinking of taking it elsewhere. I do have an outside life, I was investing time here because I thought it might be valued. I'm re-evaluating that decision I'm not going to walk away without explanation. When people stop being my customers I'd like to know why. I'm giving PG the courtesy to let him know my reactions to his policies. It's his site and he can and will do as he chooses. So far he's done an extraordinary job. Think of this as customer feedback.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  Fwiw I think people who downvote you are reacting to the tone of your writing Sentences like "I'm not going to walk away without explanation." sound (mildly) pompous and priggish. You could cut all the dramatics and posturing from your post, state the facts (as you see them) plainly, provide any supporting data and ask a polite question about the effect you want and what you can do to help. Sentences like "When people stop being my customers I'd like to know why." and "Think of this as customer feedback." have an assumption built in which may not hold. "user" != "customer".
  - RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
    Thanks for the feedback - appreciated. I could've taken more time to explain that more clearly, and it probably would've sounded better, but I really do have other things to do. The simple facts are that my votes don't count, I don't know why, I thought I was a useful contributor, I resent the implicit message that my votes aren't valued, and I think it's rude to walk away from a service because of a perceived flaw without giving feedback. I'd be interested to know what people think the difference is between "user" and "customer." Perhaps a "user" simply doesn't pay in any way, whereas a "customer" does. I prefer to be a "customer." In return for the contacts I've made and information gained, I'm happy to repay by taking time to add value. Most companies try to turn users into customers. I'm just pointing out that the current situation has turned a customer into a user, and that might not be what was intended.
    - lutorm 17y ago
      Maybe it's your presumption of malice that's rubbing people the wrong way. Instead of immediately thinking that you are under attack, perhaps a presumption of malfunction would have shown higher regard for people's intentions. (But then again, given that this is HN, maybe assuming their code isn't bug free is a worse insult? ;-)
      - RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
        As I tried to point out (and obviously failed - you're not the first person to suggest this) the fact that others have in the past said that they have lost the right to vote, and the fact that PG says he tinkers with the question of whether specific votes count, make me believe it's not a bug or other unintended feature. (ADDED IN EDIT: PG has said: "I'm experimenting with changes to the code that decides which votes count.") And in some sense I'm content that for some reason and in some way my votes have been deemed irrelevant. I'd just like to know why. More than that, I spend time thinking before I vote. If my vote has no effect, I won't waste that time.
        scott_s 17y ago
jacquesm 17y ago
RoG is on the ball and has voiced something a lot of people have been up against. I don't think it should be up to you to tell people what they should do or not do. For you it is 'just a news forum', for me it has been: - a source of knowledge - a source of friendship - a source of income - a way to help others - a way to find help

by revorad 17y ago

Chill out man. First, it could be a bug. Second, no doubt HN is a special place, but it's still just a news forum. Get back to work, go out to play, don't make this your life. </patronising>

davi 17y ago

I know what you mean but HN has also been a place where like-minded people could identify one another for possible real world collaboration. That's much more than just a news forum.

RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago

First of all, yes, I am fully aware that this is just a news forum, and that there's this thing called "real life." Secondly, this is a great resource of both contacts and information. It's made great because of the quality of people here, and the time they take to submit, comment, and vote. Without that time from people with busy lives, HN will become rather non-special. I'm pointing out that at least one person here now feels, because of a stated policy, that their time is undervalued, so I'm thinking of taking it elsewhere. I do have an outside life, I was investing time here because I thought it might be valued. I'm re-evaluating that decision I'm not going to walk away without explanation. When people stop being my customers I'd like to know why. I'm giving PG the courtesy to let him know my reactions to his policies. It's his site and he can and will do as he chooses. So far he's done an extraordinary job. Think of this as customer feedback.

plinkplonk 17y ago
Fwiw I think people who downvote you are reacting to the tone of your writing Sentences like "I'm not going to walk away without explanation." sound (mildly) pompous and priggish. You could cut all the dramatics and posturing from your post, state the facts (as you see them) plainly, provide any supporting data and ask a polite question about the effect you want and what you can do to help. Sentences like "When people stop being my customers I'd like to know why." and "Think of this as customer feedback." have an assumption built in which may not hold. "user" != "customer".
- RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
  Thanks for the feedback - appreciated. I could've taken more time to explain that more clearly, and it probably would've sounded better, but I really do have other things to do. The simple facts are that my votes don't count, I don't know why, I thought I was a useful contributor, I resent the implicit message that my votes aren't valued, and I think it's rude to walk away from a service because of a perceived flaw without giving feedback. I'd be interested to know what people think the difference is between "user" and "customer." Perhaps a "user" simply doesn't pay in any way, whereas a "customer" does. I prefer to be a "customer." In return for the contacts I've made and information gained, I'm happy to repay by taking time to add value. Most companies try to turn users into customers. I'm just pointing out that the current situation has turned a customer into a user, and that might not be what was intended.
  - lutorm 17y ago
    Maybe it's your presumption of malice that's rubbing people the wrong way. Instead of immediately thinking that you are under attack, perhaps a presumption of malfunction would have shown higher regard for people's intentions. (But then again, given that this is HN, maybe assuming their code isn't bug free is a worse insult? ;-)
    - RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
      As I tried to point out (and obviously failed - you're not the first person to suggest this) the fact that others have in the past said that they have lost the right to vote, and the fact that PG says he tinkers with the question of whether specific votes count, make me believe it's not a bug or other unintended feature. (ADDED IN EDIT: PG has said: "I'm experimenting with changes to the code that decides which votes count.") And in some sense I'm content that for some reason and in some way my votes have been deemed irrelevant. I'd just like to know why. More than that, I spend time thinking before I vote. If my vote has no effect, I won't waste that time.
      - scott_s 17y ago

jacquesm 17y ago

RoG is on the ball and has voiced something a lot of people have been up against. I don't think it should be up to you to tell people what they should do or not do. For you it is 'just a news forum', for me it has been: - a source of knowledge - a source of friendship - a source of income - a way to help others - a way to find help