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Its name in English changed. Peking was its old name in English and now it is Beijing. The old name wasn't wrong and the new name isn't right. The concept of wr

Its name in English changed. Peking was its old name in English and now it is Beijing. The old name wasn't wrong and the new name isn't right. The concept of wrongness or rightness doesn't even make sense in this context. It isn't controversial that the city that the Italians call Roma has an English name of Rome, or that the city the Germans call München has an English name of Munich, but somehow if the English name for 北京 doesn't sound as close as possible to what the locals call it in their own language, that's awful cultural imperialism.

mikeash 11y ago
I don't see "Beijing" as an "English name," just a Romanization of the Chinese name. In programming terms, it's a double indirection: Peking/Beijing points to 北京 which points to the actual city. Note that I'm not saying anything about the rightness or wrongness of either name. In fact, I explicitly said that any Romanized version is going to be imperfect. I'm just saying that I think the BBC's wording here implies the something other than what happened.
- bradleyjg 11y ago
  Are Rome and Munich pointers or English names?
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I'd call Rome an English name. We could easily write/say Roma in our own alphabet, after all, but we choose a different name. Munich, I guess depends on how you count the dots. Basically, it seems to me that there's a difference between using a different name from what the natives use because of some long tradition or linguistic drift ("English name") and using a different name from what the natives use out of necessity because nobody would know how to read it if you used the original.
analyst74 11y ago
The defensive attitude comes from the fact the name Peking was given by imperialists invading China. Thus the name Peking reminds some people of the sad part of history, triggering negative emotions toward it.
- abritinthebay 11y ago
  That's... not even close to true. Peking is a romanization of how the actual Chinese name was pronounced by actual Chinese people in the port towns that British travelers first encountered. The fact that there are about 200 different dialects which change the pronunciation doesn't make Peking wrong, or "imperialistic" in any way. In fact it is just as correct as Bejing (which is also "wrong" it's just the currently accepted form of romanization that's closer to local dialect sounds).

mikeash 11y ago

I don't see "Beijing" as an "English name," just a Romanization of the Chinese name. In programming terms, it's a double indirection: Peking/Beijing points to 北京 which points to the actual city. Note that I'm not saying anything about the rightness or wrongness of either name. In fact, I explicitly said that any Romanized version is going to be imperfect. I'm just saying that I think the BBC's wording here implies the something other than what happened.

bradleyjg 11y ago
Are Rome and Munich pointers or English names?
- mikeash 11y ago
  I'd call Rome an English name. We could easily write/say Roma in our own alphabet, after all, but we choose a different name. Munich, I guess depends on how you count the dots. Basically, it seems to me that there's a difference between using a different name from what the natives use because of some long tradition or linguistic drift ("English name") and using a different name from what the natives use out of necessity because nobody would know how to read it if you used the original.

analyst74 11y ago

The defensive attitude comes from the fact the name Peking was given by imperialists invading China. Thus the name Peking reminds some people of the sad part of history, triggering negative emotions toward it.

abritinthebay 11y ago
That's... not even close to true. Peking is a romanization of how the actual Chinese name was pronounced by actual Chinese people in the port towns that British travelers first encountered. The fact that there are about 200 different dialects which change the pronunciation doesn't make Peking wrong, or "imperialistic" in any way. In fact it is just as correct as Bejing (which is also "wrong" it's just the currently accepted form of romanization that's closer to local dialect sounds).