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I appreciate the analysis and sentiment but when looking at graphs of extreme net worth inequality it seems pretty pointless to just advise sympathetic people t

by mbrock 11y ago

I appreciate the analysis and sentiment but when looking at graphs of extreme net worth inequality it seems pretty pointless to just advise sympathetic people to "not sell out." People who will take that advice to heart will just end up not being the extremely rich people, and other people will end up there instead. It's good to increase the number of CEOs and powerful people who remain committed to values that benefit everyone. Still, without systemic change, the extremely rich and sociopathic will continue doing what they do, and extremely powerful corporations and banks will stay extremely powerful.

tdaltonc 11y ago
I totally agree "do the right thing" is a special case of "just try harder". And "Try harder" is the solution to nothing. You have to change the system to make what-you-want-to-see the natural output of the system.
- Kalium 11y ago
  Before that, you have to make sure that a system where what-you-want-to-see is the natural output is a system you're willing to accept. For any given thing, there are lots of truly abhorrent ways to produce it. There are a lot fewer morally acceptable ways. Sometimes none at all, subject to local moral conditions.
- circlefavshape 11y ago
  ... and I think you'll find that "changing the system" is pretty much impossible. The world is not created, the world evolves. The best you can do is try and apply a selection pressure
  - mbrock 11y ago
    That's applicable 99% of the time, but discontinuities happen too. French and American revolutions, for example. On a smaller scale, think of key pieces of legislation, landmark supreme court cases, and so on.
  - tdaltonc 11y ago
    No doubt that big ships turn slower, but this rule also applies to small groups and even individuals. If you aren't brushing your teeth as often as you'd like, "try harder" will not help. You need to re-architecture your space and habits. If a lot of sales leads aren't being followed up on, "try harder" will not help. You need to change the systems and processes that the sales team is using. Those changes can be much faster.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    Your best bet isn't to 'change the system' if dramatic change is needed, your best bet is to create a parallel system that people can buy into gradually.

by mbrock 11y ago

tdaltonc 11y ago

I totally agree "do the right thing" is a special case of "just try harder". And "Try harder" is the solution to nothing. You have to change the system to make what-you-want-to-see the natural output of the system.

Kalium 11y ago
Before that, you have to make sure that a system where what-you-want-to-see is the natural output is a system you're willing to accept. For any given thing, there are lots of truly abhorrent ways to produce it. There are a lot fewer morally acceptable ways. Sometimes none at all, subject to local moral conditions.
circlefavshape 11y ago
... and I think you'll find that "changing the system" is pretty much impossible. The world is not created, the world evolves. The best you can do is try and apply a selection pressure
- mbrock 11y ago
  That's applicable 99% of the time, but discontinuities happen too. French and American revolutions, for example. On a smaller scale, think of key pieces of legislation, landmark supreme court cases, and so on.
- tdaltonc 11y ago
  No doubt that big ships turn slower, but this rule also applies to small groups and even individuals. If you aren't brushing your teeth as often as you'd like, "try harder" will not help. You need to re-architecture your space and habits. If a lot of sales leads aren't being followed up on, "try harder" will not help. You need to change the systems and processes that the sales team is using. Those changes can be much faster.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Your best bet isn't to 'change the system' if dramatic change is needed, your best bet is to create a parallel system that people can buy into gradually.