5 ms·

This blog post seems to be coming from an alternate universe where OS APIs are "very well thought out" and we program in sane languages and correctness is value

by wk_end 11y ago

This blog post seems to be coming from an alternate universe where OS APIs are "very well thought out" and we program in sane languages and correctness is valued and formal methods are used and software is actually good.

junke 11y ago
In other words, France ;-)
- gaius 11y ago
  The land of OCaml!
  - criddell 11y ago
    And Eiffel and Bertrand Meyer!
    - YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
      And Prolog.
      - agumonkey 11y ago
        The jury is still open about Prolog vs Planner isn't it ?
        YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
        How do you mean that? I'm not sure.
        agumonkey 11y ago
        That planner was superior and prior Prolog.
        YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
        Prior, yes. Superior, how?
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  I give the French credit on that angle. They're certainly in the lead for practical R&D + tools for building and verifying software. Especially anything coming out of INRIA or Meyer's teams. I never heard of AdaCore being French, though. Only two of the Executive Team (below) were educated in France with most of them (and Ada itself) coming out of U.S. (esp NY). Headquarters is split between the two at least in Contact page. I could be way off so anyone feel free on input to this. http://www.adacore.com/company/about/executive-team/ http://www.adacore.com/company/about/executive-team/
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    French Univ tried their best to teach the good stuff. We had Ada, Scheme, OCaml. Too bad it looked like esoteric dust for many compared to the Java Juggernaut. From the few I've seen it seemed large system became a synonym for UML, not generic formal modular approach. But I left this around 2008, maybe the winds have changed. I wonder how much 'fresh' Ada is done today (classes, new projects, etc)
    - nickpsecurity 11y ago
      All good choices. I'm glad they tried at least. I'm not sure about France but in U.S. universities are expected to give people the job skills they need. Pascal might be easy to learn with and Scheme might be more ideal. Yet, most jobs were using Java or C++ so many schools switched to using those. People start from day 1 thinking that's how programming and design are supposed to work. Kind of sad. I'm not arguing universities should be impractical. I just encourage them to teach both what's beneficial to the mind and quality of our industry plus the practical tech. Increases odds good things will spill-over from one to the other.
      - agumonkey 11y ago
        That's the underlying tension. It's hard to avoid, I think it has detrimental effect on the whole industry. Unless schools were sure of the skills transfer from Ada/Scheme to Java/.Net or whatever tech used on a job they could enforce better education of better concepts rather than ensuring a easier to sell resume. The market decided the other way around.

by wk_end 11y ago

junke 11y ago

In other words, France ;-)

gaius 11y ago
The land of OCaml!
- criddell 11y ago
  And Eiffel and Bertrand Meyer!
  - YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
    And Prolog.
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      The jury is still open about Prolog vs Planner isn't it ?
      - YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
        How do you mean that? I'm not sure.
        agumonkey 11y ago
        That planner was superior and prior Prolog.
        YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
        Prior, yes. Superior, how?
nickpsecurity 11y ago
I give the French credit on that angle. They're certainly in the lead for practical R&D + tools for building and verifying software. Especially anything coming out of INRIA or Meyer's teams. I never heard of AdaCore being French, though. Only two of the Executive Team (below) were educated in France with most of them (and Ada itself) coming out of U.S. (esp NY). Headquarters is split between the two at least in Contact page. I could be way off so anyone feel free on input to this. http://www.adacore.com/company/about/executive-team/ http://www.adacore.com/company/about/executive-team/
- agumonkey 11y ago
  French Univ tried their best to teach the good stuff. We had Ada, Scheme, OCaml. Too bad it looked like esoteric dust for many compared to the Java Juggernaut. From the few I've seen it seemed large system became a synonym for UML, not generic formal modular approach. But I left this around 2008, maybe the winds have changed. I wonder how much 'fresh' Ada is done today (classes, new projects, etc)
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    All good choices. I'm glad they tried at least. I'm not sure about France but in U.S. universities are expected to give people the job skills they need. Pascal might be easy to learn with and Scheme might be more ideal. Yet, most jobs were using Java or C++ so many schools switched to using those. People start from day 1 thinking that's how programming and design are supposed to work. Kind of sad. I'm not arguing universities should be impractical. I just encourage them to teach both what's beneficial to the mind and quality of our industry plus the practical tech. Increases odds good things will spill-over from one to the other.
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      That's the underlying tension. It's hard to avoid, I think it has detrimental effect on the whole industry. Unless schools were sure of the skills transfer from Ada/Scheme to Java/.Net or whatever tech used on a job they could enforce better education of better concepts rather than ensuring a easier to sell resume. The market decided the other way around.