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Furthermore SDL2 is absolutely fantastic and just works. You may say, you do not want to use it as it "just" abstracts away keyboard/mouse/controller input, win

Furthermore SDL2 is absolutely fantastic and just works. You may say, you do not want to use it as it "just" abstracts away keyboard/mouse/controller input, window and GL context creation but these things are damn hard to get right.

anon4 11y ago
Also, your game will continue working natively when linux transitions to using wayland/mir, without having to run via an X11 shim.
- fulafel 11y ago
  This is true for the alternatives as well, approximately nobody writes raw Xlib apps in modern times.
  - SXX 11y ago
    Unfortunately most of game developers that decide against use of SDL2 do that based on their experience of Windows development where it's pretty much standard to have own code for everything (except development tools and some middleware). E.g they think that their own code going to take less lines and be cleaner than SDL. As result these people usually don't even consider any alternatives as all of them even worse from their standpoint.
    - jblow 11y ago
      ... And those developers are generally right. I would use SDL in Linux ports of things because it is the closest to a reasonable native API on Linux (which says more about Linux than SDL actually). But even having done so I would then use native APIs in Windows, OSX, etc. If your standard of quality is high enough, it won't really be possible to reach it using a blanket API like SDL everywhere.
      - exprx 11y ago
        Nothing on the post above is even remotely accurate.
        exprx 11y ago
        So much explained disagreement.. not?
      - waitForCompiler 11y ago
        So it means you prefer SDL2 on Linux because it is the least awful. Can you elaborate why you would not use it on e.g. Windows? Which parts of it do you consider inappropriate do use it cross-platform?
      - SXX 11y ago
        It's reasonable to keep native code when you already spend months / years working with it. Or if you're huge company with hundreds of programmers that want to have own everything. Though when it's relatively new game with own engine and small team maintenance cost for own cross platform code going to be high. Even on Windows there is tons of small problems that already solved within SDL. It's really not fun to debug problems of XP, Vista and some not updated systems. PS: Also as far as I aware SDL2 currently used by all Valve games on all platforms. I pretty sure they wouldn't be using it if it's wasn't working well.
        yoklov 11y ago
        IIRC Valve uses SDL for some things but also goes around it and uses platform APIs for other things.
- SXX 11y ago
  SDL2 also have nice SDL_DYNAMIC_API feature that let users to switch to different library version even if it's statically linked.
et1337 11y ago
As a current SDL2 user: it is not fantastic and it does not just work. - On Windows, DPI scaling is broken (ask for a 1280x720 window, get 1600x900) - On Mac, mouse locking is broken - On Linux, my Xbox gamepads don't work at all - Required several hacks before it could be used as a CMake submodule This stuff is under active development, which is shocking for such an established and widespread library. I'm glad it exists, but it doesn't "just work". Can't really blame it though, it has a very boring and nearly impossible task.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- mikepavone 11y ago
  > - On Linux, my Xbox gamepads don't work at all Really? I use Linux full time at home and I've never had problems with 360 controllers either when developing with SDL2 or playing games built with it. Are you talking about original Xbox and/or Xbox One controllers?
  - et1337 11y ago
    Aftermarket Xbox 360 controllers. I've seen other Linux SDL games work with 360 controllers, so I assume the problem is on my end. I just wanted to contest the notion that SDL "just works". It still takes a lot of fiddling unfortunately.
- SXX 11y ago
  Have no idea about DPI on Windows, but from my experience mouse locking on OS X worked and my Xbox pad works for sure (checked just month ago or so). I know about some issues with force feedback, but not sure if those are even SDL issue. PS: What OS X version you had problem with?
  - et1337 11y ago
    Tested on El Capitan. IIRC, SDL_SetRelativeMouseMode didn't work at all, the cursor remained visible. After some workarounds, there are still issues with the cursor not re-centering correctly, menu bar remaining visible, etc. It's probably because I'm on a random Git commit rather than a stable release, but I had to do that due to another issue. It's surprising how many things are in flux, given how long it's been around.

anon4 11y ago

Also, your game will continue working natively when linux transitions to using wayland/mir, without having to run via an X11 shim.

fulafel 11y ago
This is true for the alternatives as well, approximately nobody writes raw Xlib apps in modern times.
- SXX 11y ago
  Unfortunately most of game developers that decide against use of SDL2 do that based on their experience of Windows development where it's pretty much standard to have own code for everything (except development tools and some middleware). E.g they think that their own code going to take less lines and be cleaner than SDL. As result these people usually don't even consider any alternatives as all of them even worse from their standpoint.
  - jblow 11y ago
    ... And those developers are generally right. I would use SDL in Linux ports of things because it is the closest to a reasonable native API on Linux (which says more about Linux than SDL actually). But even having done so I would then use native APIs in Windows, OSX, etc. If your standard of quality is high enough, it won't really be possible to reach it using a blanket API like SDL everywhere.
    - exprx 11y ago
      Nothing on the post above is even remotely accurate.
      - exprx 11y ago
        So much explained disagreement.. not?
    - waitForCompiler 11y ago
      So it means you prefer SDL2 on Linux because it is the least awful. Can you elaborate why you would not use it on e.g. Windows? Which parts of it do you consider inappropriate do use it cross-platform?
    - SXX 11y ago
      It's reasonable to keep native code when you already spend months / years working with it. Or if you're huge company with hundreds of programmers that want to have own everything. Though when it's relatively new game with own engine and small team maintenance cost for own cross platform code going to be high. Even on Windows there is tons of small problems that already solved within SDL. It's really not fun to debug problems of XP, Vista and some not updated systems. PS: Also as far as I aware SDL2 currently used by all Valve games on all platforms. I pretty sure they wouldn't be using it if it's wasn't working well.
      - yoklov 11y ago
        IIRC Valve uses SDL for some things but also goes around it and uses platform APIs for other things.
SXX 11y ago
SDL2 also have nice SDL_DYNAMIC_API feature that let users to switch to different library version even if it's statically linked.

et1337 11y ago

As a current SDL2 user: it is not fantastic and it does not just work. - On Windows, DPI scaling is broken (ask for a 1280x720 window, get 1600x900) - On Mac, mouse locking is broken - On Linux, my Xbox gamepads don't work at all - Required several hacks before it could be used as a CMake submodule This stuff is under active development, which is shocking for such an established and widespread library. I'm glad it exists, but it doesn't "just work". Can't really blame it though, it has a very boring and nearly impossible task.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
mikepavone 11y ago
> - On Linux, my Xbox gamepads don't work at all Really? I use Linux full time at home and I've never had problems with 360 controllers either when developing with SDL2 or playing games built with it. Are you talking about original Xbox and/or Xbox One controllers?
- et1337 11y ago
  Aftermarket Xbox 360 controllers. I've seen other Linux SDL games work with 360 controllers, so I assume the problem is on my end. I just wanted to contest the notion that SDL "just works". It still takes a lot of fiddling unfortunately.
SXX 11y ago
Have no idea about DPI on Windows, but from my experience mouse locking on OS X worked and my Xbox pad works for sure (checked just month ago or so). I know about some issues with force feedback, but not sure if those are even SDL issue. PS: What OS X version you had problem with?
- et1337 11y ago
  Tested on El Capitan. IIRC, SDL_SetRelativeMouseMode didn't work at all, the cursor remained visible. After some workarounds, there are still issues with the cursor not re-centering correctly, menu bar remaining visible, etc. It's probably because I'm on a random Git commit rather than a stable release, but I had to do that due to another issue. It's surprising how many things are in flux, given how long it's been around.