4 ms·

It's not fair to call Fastmail "a bit pricey" when your point of comparison is a special circumstance you are in that is not available for new users. In general

by gkop 11y ago

It's not fair to call Fastmail "a bit pricey" when your point of comparison is a special circumstance you are in that is not available for new users. In general, Google Apps is $50/year, which is 25% more than the comparable Fastmail plan.

josteink 11y ago
Fair enough. Original comment edited to clarify the "pricey" bit.
danieldk 11y ago
But it's not really comparable since Google Apps has a much better storage story (Google Drive vs. WebDAV-based storage) and an office suite with collaborative editing, etc. Also, additional storage is much cheaper. You get 100GB extra storage for $1.99 per month or 1TB for $4 per month (or 'unlimited' if the domain has more than five users). But I agree that $40 per year is not pricy for a fast e-mail service with a lot of redundancy. Plus, Fastmail contributes a lot to open source projects such as Cyrus. (Note: I have both a Google Apps and a Fastmail account.)
- bad_user 11y ago
  > Google Apps has a much better storage story (Google Drive vs. WebDAV-based storage) I've been a Dropbox user even before switching off Google Apps, because Dropbox has a much better client and compared to alternatives, storage for them is not just a complementary to something else, so for example they support Linux as well. Which is very important for a multi-platform guy such as myself. Dropbox is also integrated with Microsoft's Office Online, with Gmail (by means of a Chrome extension) and with Fastmail's web interface. So from Fastmail's web interface you can attach files straight from Dropbox. Plenty of apps have integration with Dropbox actually, like for example 1Password. Dropbox is also the suggested alternative to iCloud by Apple. And that's not the only option. If you're a power user interested in security, there's also SpiderOak. It's a bit more pricey, but that's because they are doing encryption and so cannot take advantage of duplicate files and other gimmicks like that. And it's worth it for people worrying about the privacy of their data. > 1TB for $4 per month The pricing you're talking about is about the Vault option and is $5 per user per month and not $4. And the big problem is that's misleading. That's $5 per month per user and is applied for all users in your Google Apps account, whether they need it or not. My wife for example certainly does not need 1 TB and for small businesses that can be very problematic, as you can easily pay an extra $100 per month. In other words, I see no reason to encourage a monoculture on the basis of tighter integration or complementary pricing that's misleading. We've been experiencing this strategy time and time again in the past from companies like Microsoft. You'd think we should have learned by now. In fact such marketing strategies are exemplified in books such as "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely. That was an interesting read if you're interested. And it never ends up well, either for consumers or for the industry at large. And you've got good options available that I think are better than Google Drive. > an office suite with collaborative editing But nobody stops you from continuing to use Google's Docs, in combination with Fastmail and Dropbox or whatever. I've done that, it's not bad and should not be a reason to keep using Gmail. Big companies like Google, Microsoft or Apple want you to get from them everything but the kitchen sink, because that's how they achieve lock-in, that's how they can use their brand muscle to make you buy shit you don't need or stick to inferior options. You shouldn't forget that Gmail is about email and if Gmail no longer does email well for you, then complementaries like Google Drive or Google Docs won't make it magically work better at email. But btw, did you know that Microsoft's Office Online can edit and save files as ODF, the standard document format and Google Docs does not support ODF? In fact Google Docs doesn't support editing any of the common formats, as they require conversion in their own format in order to edit those documents, leading to a form of lock-in that Microsoft has only dreamt of.
  - josteink 11y ago
    > Dropbox ... so for example they support Linux as well Apart from the idea of not putting all my eggs in one basket, this is crucial for me too. Dropbox is the only cloud-storage service with a good and working Linux client. All my machines at home runs Linux, so not supporting that means I wont even consider using the service.
  - danieldk 11y ago
    I've been a Dropbox user even before switching off Google Apps, because Dropbox has a much better client and compared to alternatives, Oh, definitely. Outside mobile, the Dropbox client is miles ahead. I was just saying that a Google Apps account and Fastmail account is not directly comparable, since Google Apps offers so much more. If you're a power user interested in security, there's also SpiderOak. I don't see the added benefit. As long as the standard client is closed source, it's only a bit better from a security perspective. That's $5 per month per user and is applied for all users in your Google Apps account, whether they need it or not. Definitely. But we were comparing to Fastmail, where storage costs 1GB for $5 USD/year for enhanced accounts. Just for comparison, for 100GB that is $41 per month above the base account cost, compared to $1.99 per GMail. Then a $4 per month account plus $1.99 for 100GB or $5 for 1TB doesn't look so bad. But nobody stops you from continuing to use Google's Docs, in combination with Fastmail and Dropbox or whatever. If you use Google Docs outside Google Apps, your documents can be mined for advertising. No thanks! You shouldn't forget that Gmail is about email and if Gmail no longer does email well for you, then complementaries like Google Drive or Google Docs won't make it magically work better at email. I have Fastmail and Google Apps and I still like Google Mail more in general. For instance, I prefer labeling over folders and the mobile GMail/Inbox apps are a far better experience than the Fastmail app. But I don't agree with the premise. One of the nice things of Google Apps is integration, e.g. mail <-> calendar, Google Now, and Inbox. Dropbox realized how important this is and started pushing integration beyond providing an API for apps (Office Web integration, Office plugins, Google Mail extension, etc.)
    - josteink 11y ago
      > I prefer labeling over folders and the mobile GMail/Inbox apps are a far better experience than the Fastmail app. I use Fastmail, and they support standard internet protocols like IMAP and CardDAV. Which means I can use the standard Android email-apps, CardDAV sync, and have everything still work just fine. No need to use an email-provider specific app, although Google and Gmail has tried to mentally brainwash everyone and their grandmothers that this is how email actually works.

by gkop 11y ago

josteink 11y ago

Fair enough. Original comment edited to clarify the "pricey" bit.

danieldk 11y ago

But it's not really comparable since Google Apps has a much better storage story (Google Drive vs. WebDAV-based storage) and an office suite with collaborative editing, etc. Also, additional storage is much cheaper. You get 100GB extra storage for $1.99 per month or 1TB for $4 per month (or 'unlimited' if the domain has more than five users). But I agree that $40 per year is not pricy for a fast e-mail service with a lot of redundancy. Plus, Fastmail contributes a lot to open source projects such as Cyrus. (Note: I have both a Google Apps and a Fastmail account.)

bad_user 11y ago
> Google Apps has a much better storage story (Google Drive vs. WebDAV-based storage) I've been a Dropbox user even before switching off Google Apps, because Dropbox has a much better client and compared to alternatives, storage for them is not just a complementary to something else, so for example they support Linux as well. Which is very important for a multi-platform guy such as myself. Dropbox is also integrated with Microsoft's Office Online, with Gmail (by means of a Chrome extension) and with Fastmail's web interface. So from Fastmail's web interface you can attach files straight from Dropbox. Plenty of apps have integration with Dropbox actually, like for example 1Password. Dropbox is also the suggested alternative to iCloud by Apple. And that's not the only option. If you're a power user interested in security, there's also SpiderOak. It's a bit more pricey, but that's because they are doing encryption and so cannot take advantage of duplicate files and other gimmicks like that. And it's worth it for people worrying about the privacy of their data. > 1TB for $4 per month The pricing you're talking about is about the Vault option and is $5 per user per month and not $4. And the big problem is that's misleading. That's $5 per month per user and is applied for all users in your Google Apps account, whether they need it or not. My wife for example certainly does not need 1 TB and for small businesses that can be very problematic, as you can easily pay an extra $100 per month. In other words, I see no reason to encourage a monoculture on the basis of tighter integration or complementary pricing that's misleading. We've been experiencing this strategy time and time again in the past from companies like Microsoft. You'd think we should have learned by now. In fact such marketing strategies are exemplified in books such as "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely. That was an interesting read if you're interested. And it never ends up well, either for consumers or for the industry at large. And you've got good options available that I think are better than Google Drive. > an office suite with collaborative editing But nobody stops you from continuing to use Google's Docs, in combination with Fastmail and Dropbox or whatever. I've done that, it's not bad and should not be a reason to keep using Gmail. Big companies like Google, Microsoft or Apple want you to get from them everything but the kitchen sink, because that's how they achieve lock-in, that's how they can use their brand muscle to make you buy shit you don't need or stick to inferior options. You shouldn't forget that Gmail is about email and if Gmail no longer does email well for you, then complementaries like Google Drive or Google Docs won't make it magically work better at email. But btw, did you know that Microsoft's Office Online can edit and save files as ODF, the standard document format and Google Docs does not support ODF? In fact Google Docs doesn't support editing any of the common formats, as they require conversion in their own format in order to edit those documents, leading to a form of lock-in that Microsoft has only dreamt of.
- josteink 11y ago
  > Dropbox ... so for example they support Linux as well Apart from the idea of not putting all my eggs in one basket, this is crucial for me too. Dropbox is the only cloud-storage service with a good and working Linux client. All my machines at home runs Linux, so not supporting that means I wont even consider using the service.
- danieldk 11y ago
  I've been a Dropbox user even before switching off Google Apps, because Dropbox has a much better client and compared to alternatives, Oh, definitely. Outside mobile, the Dropbox client is miles ahead. I was just saying that a Google Apps account and Fastmail account is not directly comparable, since Google Apps offers so much more. If you're a power user interested in security, there's also SpiderOak. I don't see the added benefit. As long as the standard client is closed source, it's only a bit better from a security perspective. That's $5 per month per user and is applied for all users in your Google Apps account, whether they need it or not. Definitely. But we were comparing to Fastmail, where storage costs 1GB for $5 USD/year for enhanced accounts. Just for comparison, for 100GB that is $41 per month above the base account cost, compared to $1.99 per GMail. Then a $4 per month account plus $1.99 for 100GB or $5 for 1TB doesn't look so bad. But nobody stops you from continuing to use Google's Docs, in combination with Fastmail and Dropbox or whatever. If you use Google Docs outside Google Apps, your documents can be mined for advertising. No thanks! You shouldn't forget that Gmail is about email and if Gmail no longer does email well for you, then complementaries like Google Drive or Google Docs won't make it magically work better at email. I have Fastmail and Google Apps and I still like Google Mail more in general. For instance, I prefer labeling over folders and the mobile GMail/Inbox apps are a far better experience than the Fastmail app. But I don't agree with the premise. One of the nice things of Google Apps is integration, e.g. mail <-> calendar, Google Now, and Inbox. Dropbox realized how important this is and started pushing integration beyond providing an API for apps (Office Web integration, Office plugins, Google Mail extension, etc.)
  - josteink 11y ago
    > I prefer labeling over folders and the mobile GMail/Inbox apps are a far better experience than the Fastmail app. I use Fastmail, and they support standard internet protocols like IMAP and CardDAV. Which means I can use the standard Android email-apps, CardDAV sync, and have everything still work just fine. No need to use an email-provider specific app, although Google and Gmail has tried to mentally brainwash everyone and their grandmothers that this is how email actually works.