4 ms·

This decision baffles me. What possible benefit to New Yorkers is there to not allow them to take bets, if things like state lotteries are still legal? We let

This decision baffles me. What possible benefit to New Yorkers is there to not allow them to take bets, if things like state lotteries are still legal? We let people drink and smoke but people can't enjoy putting money on fantasy sports. I'm not in the state, but I'd consider myself a power user of those sites, so perhaps I'm only disappointed that alot of easy money just left the system. If these sites didn't have the people(NFL and Jerry Jones) and money(see people) behind them that they do, I'd be a bit more worried about their future. Is this just some state's working on an endgame to be able to tax fantasy sports revenue that comes from their states? This is the same state that outlawed pinball until someone proved that it was a game of skill. http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2015/05/29/pinball_was_banned_in_new_york_until_a_single_miraculous_shot_convinced.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2015/05/29/pinball_... That's it, its time I took this into my own hands, and went on a major winning spree to prove that fantasy football and hockey are really games of skill and not chance:)

JonFish85 11y ago
Is it about that specifically, or is it that the states are forcing these websites to play by the same rules as everyone else? Ignoring laws that everyone else has to play by is something that has worked so far for Airbnb and Uber but apparently something like gambling is a bit more clear cut.
- tikhonj 11y ago
  The two aren't mutually exclusive. If they are just forcing them to "play by the same rules", Chollida's question just becomes "why are the rules in the state stacked against gambling?", with the rest of the question unchanged. It's perfectly possible to fairly enforce unfair (and/or fair but counterproductive) rules, but that on its own doesn't justify it. Viewed this way, these companies are then just engaging in something like constructive noncompliance.
  - JonFish85 11y ago
    That is an entirely different question, but the answer probably isn't that anyone can ignore inconvenient laws under the guise of "It's unjust"
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Your question reduces to: why is gambling illegal? And the answer is that lots of people don't like it, and people are entitled to make things they don't like illegal. A recent poll found that 55% of people think sports betting should be legal, while 33% think it should be illegal: https://www13.shu.edu/academics/business/sports-polling/upload/11-14-NBA-gambling.pdf https://www13.shu.edu/academics/business/sports-polling/uplo.... But if you read closely, support drops off dramatically in the 45+ age group, which is heavily over-represented at the polls, especially in local elections. One study found that the median age of voters in mayoral elections in four cities was 60: http://www.knightfoundation.org/blogs/knightblog/2015/7/28/portland-state-study-seniors-much-more-likely-cast-ballots-young-votes http://www.knightfoundation.org/blogs/knightblog/2015/7/28/p....
    - jdminhbg 11y ago
      > people are entitled to make things they don't like illegal Things like gay marriage, flag burning, and atheists holding public office, right?
      - GalacticDomin8r 11y ago
        That known as the "tyranny of the majority" and yes it's one of those warts no one likes to credit democracy with.
      - rayiner 11y ago
        Those are the exceptions that prove the rule. Only when it implicates a fundamental right will the majority be precluded from banning things they dislike.
    - Spooky23 11y ago
      Gambling is illegal in most places because it's an addictive behavior that causes a lot of social problems and attracts an undesirable element. States started rolling out lotteries 50-60 years ago as a regressive tax scheme that also helped to reduce demand for illegal numbers rackets.
fletchowns 11y ago
> What possible benefit to New Yorkers is there to not allow them to take bets, if things like state lotteries are still legal? Just because the state lottery is legal doesn't mean anybody can go and create their own lottery. Notice how you see "no purchase necessary" on every single promotional event where you can win something?
- oh_sigh 11y ago
  Isn't the difference that sports betting is a game of skill and not pure chance like the lottery?
  - JonFish85 11y ago
    How does that make it not gambling, outside of the midnight rider on the port security bill? Wagering money on a game is gambling.
    - brianwawok 11y ago
      see poker. which is sometimes not gambling. but sometimes it is.
  - fletchowns 11y ago
    What about when a player gets injured? Isn't that pure chance?
    - oh_sigh 11y ago
      Sure, but every player at a given position probably has an equal chance of being injured, so the real differentiator is skill in choosing the right players.
venomsnake 11y ago
Fair question - is D&D or Diablo III a game of skill or chance? Is it legal to bet on it?
- ahallock 11y ago
  It doesn't really matter. It's not like authoritarians in the State make principled, consistent decisions, or have rules that reflect the same. FF fleeces customers but State lotteries? Crickets. The State lottery is in the constitution, so it has a magical protection spell around it. It's mostly about picking winners and losers, jumping on trends, protecting political legacies, shakedowns, etc. If D&D came under the same scrutiny, I'm sure they'd try to ban betting on it.

JonFish85 11y ago

Is it about that specifically, or is it that the states are forcing these websites to play by the same rules as everyone else? Ignoring laws that everyone else has to play by is something that has worked so far for Airbnb and Uber but apparently something like gambling is a bit more clear cut.

tikhonj 11y ago
The two aren't mutually exclusive. If they are just forcing them to "play by the same rules", Chollida's question just becomes "why are the rules in the state stacked against gambling?", with the rest of the question unchanged. It's perfectly possible to fairly enforce unfair (and/or fair but counterproductive) rules, but that on its own doesn't justify it. Viewed this way, these companies are then just engaging in something like constructive noncompliance.
- JonFish85 11y ago
  That is an entirely different question, but the answer probably isn't that anyone can ignore inconvenient laws under the guise of "It's unjust"
- rayiner 11y ago
  Your question reduces to: why is gambling illegal? And the answer is that lots of people don't like it, and people are entitled to make things they don't like illegal. A recent poll found that 55% of people think sports betting should be legal, while 33% think it should be illegal: https://www13.shu.edu/academics/business/sports-polling/upload/11-14-NBA-gambling.pdf https://www13.shu.edu/academics/business/sports-polling/uplo.... But if you read closely, support drops off dramatically in the 45+ age group, which is heavily over-represented at the polls, especially in local elections. One study found that the median age of voters in mayoral elections in four cities was 60: http://www.knightfoundation.org/blogs/knightblog/2015/7/28/portland-state-study-seniors-much-more-likely-cast-ballots-young-votes http://www.knightfoundation.org/blogs/knightblog/2015/7/28/p....
  - jdminhbg 11y ago
    > people are entitled to make things they don't like illegal Things like gay marriage, flag burning, and atheists holding public office, right?
    - GalacticDomin8r 11y ago
      That known as the "tyranny of the majority" and yes it's one of those warts no one likes to credit democracy with.
    - rayiner 11y ago
      Those are the exceptions that prove the rule. Only when it implicates a fundamental right will the majority be precluded from banning things they dislike.
  - Spooky23 11y ago
    Gambling is illegal in most places because it's an addictive behavior that causes a lot of social problems and attracts an undesirable element. States started rolling out lotteries 50-60 years ago as a regressive tax scheme that also helped to reduce demand for illegal numbers rackets.

fletchowns 11y ago

> What possible benefit to New Yorkers is there to not allow them to take bets, if things like state lotteries are still legal? Just because the state lottery is legal doesn't mean anybody can go and create their own lottery. Notice how you see "no purchase necessary" on every single promotional event where you can win something?

oh_sigh 11y ago
Isn't the difference that sports betting is a game of skill and not pure chance like the lottery?
- JonFish85 11y ago
  How does that make it not gambling, outside of the midnight rider on the port security bill? Wagering money on a game is gambling.
  - brianwawok 11y ago
    see poker. which is sometimes not gambling. but sometimes it is.
- fletchowns 11y ago
  What about when a player gets injured? Isn't that pure chance?
  - oh_sigh 11y ago
    Sure, but every player at a given position probably has an equal chance of being injured, so the real differentiator is skill in choosing the right players.

venomsnake 11y ago

Fair question - is D&D or Diablo III a game of skill or chance? Is it legal to bet on it?

ahallock 11y ago
It doesn't really matter. It's not like authoritarians in the State make principled, consistent decisions, or have rules that reflect the same. FF fleeces customers but State lotteries? Crickets. The State lottery is in the constitution, so it has a magical protection spell around it. It's mostly about picking winners and losers, jumping on trends, protecting political legacies, shakedowns, etc. If D&D came under the same scrutiny, I'm sure they'd try to ban betting on it.