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Ask HN: Hacking or management?
I currently work as a tech lead at a very large company outside the US. The product I'm in charge of has tens of thousands of users.
The problem is that I manage a team of mediocre programmers and the engineering culture is terribly broken (cowboy coding, no tests, people don't care much about writing good code ie. no passion, etc).
I feel bad for not learning more technical things lately (due to the lousy culture) but I also feel it might be a good thing to learn how to manage.
My goal being to start a tech company eventually, I ask you:
Is the skill of management transferable from a team of bad/average programmers to a team of good/great ones? I'm afraid I might be wasting my time here and should look for a job where I get to hang around smarter people and learn more technical stuff.
PS: I don't think I have enough experience to get hired as a tech lead in charge of a strong team.
- alain94040 11y agoYes. Sounds like a great opportunity to learn about how to lead a team. It's harder to get good results from a bad team, obviously, so if you can pull it off, it means you are doing something right. However, be careful: if you think of your team as mediocre, you are not likely to be a good leader. I'm sure you have heard all the caricatures about bad managers. Don't be one of them. Educate, persuade. Don't dictate. Don't blame. It's a hard job, but possibly a transformational experience for you.
- vcald64 11y agoTrue, maybe I'm just being too harsh. Thanks a lot man, that's sound advice!
- andyfleming 11y agoIt's not just about being harsh. Sometimes you need to be harsh (at least internally). Reflecting, and understanding the reality of the situation is one step. The next is deciding what the team needs to hear. What's the best action to move them forward?
- willhinsa 11y agoCurious, have you read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie? It seems like it would be a fantastic refresher for you. Every time I read that book, I feel reinvigorated and ready to connect with people around me.
- vcald64 11y agoThat book's been sitting on my shelf for years! I'll go read it now once I finish High Output Management (highly recommended). Thanks!
- squidi 11y agoI have seen the performance of teams turned around by experienced managers. The key seems to be making it clear what you expect and why - checking if they understand what that is - and reinforcing it. Another route can be just setting a great example and they will be inspired to follow you. There is probably research out there about turnaround skills for a team. There's no harm in trying as long as you just don't be a jerk to them. They probably have not been trained or shown what high performance looks like. Best of luck!
- dyeje 11y agoYou identified some problems, now start implementing solutions. Turning a bad team into a good one sounds like a great way to improve your leadership.
- griffash 11y agoI think to answer this question you should look at your experience with the team so far. You can be a leader without being a manager. Pick one of the issues you'd like to fix, like no tests. Can you educate/persuade/mentor your teammates now, as a tech lead, and improve the test coverage? If you can successfully do that as a tech lead, you will probably have success doing it as their manager. And if you can get folks interested in writing tests, they probably will see you as a natural choice for manager. The other thing to think about is if you want to be a manager day-to-day. Management is a completely different JOB. Remember, you are not rowing the boat, you are the captain of the team calling out the rhythm.
- liquidcool 11y agoI wrote a very long, funny post about the frustrations you are facing. It's based around being a lead, but having no authority because you have no influence over salary and hire/fire decisions. However, I never never published it because I'm afraid people won't read to the end where I realize you need to be able to show how management's problems are their problems, and likewise the solutions. And if you can't articulate in a convincing way why best practices are really best for your team, it may be time to revisit the source material. To be fair, I had to do this myself, but I came out way more confident in my knowledge of what makes a productive team.
- vcald64 11y agoThanks, that is some good insight. A doubt I still have is: what if the delta is too big? Can you really turn a team of "meh" pogrammers into a bunch of great coders by tring to infuse them with passion? If I have a good understanding of best practices I can probably convince them to a point, but it doesn't seem possible to infuse them with passion somehow. If I want to be around a great team might as well change jobs and give up on learning to lead for the moment.
- poof131 11y agoI don’t think the key is inspiring them, it’s understanding them. Empathy. Why are they a team of ‘meh’ programmers. Is there no upward mobility? Does no one care how they perform? Are they just clocking time? Words are so hollow. Understand which people on the team have potential and why that potential isn’t being filled. What do they want? How can you help them achieve what they want and in the process have them help you achieve what you want, a well functioning team. The leadership myth is some great profit on stage rousing people with inspiration. That doesn’t last and is often counter productive. Leading people is primarily at the individual level. Junior Officers and NCOs lead people into combat, not Generals. Understand your team, empathize with them, and then figure out how to move everyone in a direction you all want to go.
- liquidcool 11y agoI agree poof has some good points. You don't really define "meh," which means you haven't defined the problem in detail. Or perhaps multiple problems, which you could prioritize and tackle individually. If the delta is too big, shrink the delta. And I caution against making "passion" the goal. That's a myth. You just need people being productive. I know a few brilliant people who don't show any signs of passion or excitement, but they're prodigious without being egotistical, which is the best you can hope for. I don't know your situation, but part of my problem was that best practices produce overhead, which feels like wasted effort if you're not getting yelled at for big errors or missed deadlines. And it's worse if you're not getting yelled at for big errors, but are getting pushed for deadlines. But then you're racking up technical debt, and there's a lot of material on that.
- marcuscreo 11y agoFirst, you need to learn the skills and work of managing a software team. I just wrote about it here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/real-work-management-marcus-blankenship?trk=pulse_spock-articles https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/real-work-management-marcus-b... Second, the best thing you can do for your career is the hard work of turning your team of "mediocre programmers with broken culture" into something great. It's hard work, but it can be done, I promise. I write more about this as well at.. http://marcusblankenship.com/become-a-great-manager/ http://marcusblankenship.com/become-a-great-manager/ Not trying to toot my own horn here, but it is completely achievable.
- sheepmullet 11y agoThanks for the article. I agreed with a lot of it. A few thoughts: > Your work is MORE important than any individual programmer because you are a force multiplier. I disagree. Your senior developers should all be force multipliers and it isn't about more vs less important. They are simply different roles. In the short term (1-2years) a great manager is the easiest person to replace in a team because a great manager focuses more on strategy than tactics - although there is always a bit of both. > You are unique in your group; you are their manager and leader. All the great managers I've worked with had one thing in common: they weren't managers or leaders in any day to day traditional sense. I don't want my manager to be the main person talking to our customers or trying to prioritise work. Etc etc. I want them to fix/improve the culture. E.g. > Ensuring the team has the best tools possible. This doesn't mean the manager should be picking the tools. It also doesn't mean the manager should be getting particular tools authorised/purchased. I can write a better business case than my manager for any particular tool I need. A great manager might instead create a culture where no business case is required for tool purchases under $500. My last manager actually put any tool purchases we wanted on his personal credit card, no questions asked, because he couldn't get any organisational support. He then did all the legwork to get reimbursed. And that is clearly leadership. But its not leadership in a day to day sense. It did however help create a really good atmosphere and we were incredibly productive as a team.
- vcald64 11y agoThanks for the articles Marcus, they gave me some valuable insights!
- blooberr 11y agoRight now, I think it's best you stay and try to turn things around. I don't think I can give you more concrete advice just based on your description so far. I lead a team of engineers too - email me (in my profile) if you want to chat in person or Skype. I'd be more than happy to listen and discuss your situation.