5 ms·

Isn't it possible to just buy a set of knobs/buttons/etc and use that to control the software?

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
Not easily. The big problem - the one that has never been solved - is that software needs a programmable interface with fixed hardware controllers/knobs/sliders, but dynamic labelling. You can certainly imagine using modern controller and display technology to build such a thing - studio mixers have had similar features for years - but the price is always going to be prohibitive. And there's no standard display API for softsynths. (NI have tried to produce one called NKS, but it's early days.) And softsynths can have hundreds of parameters. Showing them all at once is always going to be a challenge. So most controller products either show nothing at all, or show a handle of items - like eight or so. Which are different for every synth. If a softsynth supports OSC you can fake the tactility on an iPad, but the small size is a problem; I expect the Pro will be better, but still limited. Music certainly works better when it's tactile, but - as someone who used to design and build modular hardware, occasionally for cash - I now find modulars rather ridiculous, and certainly just as limiting in their own ways as any other technology. They make great toys, but IMO the spirit of modulars - build completely new things to make new music - is a lot more alive in software than hardware now.
- darkmighty 11y ago
  Yup I'm learning to play an instrument and the tactile instant feedback is amazing; but software is clearly cheaper and infinitely more configurable (you're limited only by your memory, so basically there's no limitation!). It sounds like a worthwhile problem to look into making interfaces to bring that feedback to software.
- kragen 11y ago
  I feel like it isn't that hard to hook something like the BCR2000 or nanoKONTROL2 up to Pd, and then you can make labels for the knobs using paper stickers and a pen. Then you get to choose which few dozen parameters you want to have at your fingertips. And then you get a lot more tactility than an iPad. I also know a guy who drove his synth from a Wacom tablet, giving him X, Y, and pressure axes with low-latency, high-precision control, but no haptic feedback like the BCR2000 gives you.
  - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
    That's fine when you have a single patch/synth, but most projects have anywhere between a handful and tens of different synths. Novation have made automap systems for about ten years now. NI have made them for a couple of years. But aside from touch panel toys like the iPad and the Lemur, and some high-end mixers, I still haven't seen a system with more than eight knobs/digital labels. It wouldn't be hard to design one. Unfortunately in a market where $200 is a lot for a controller, it's hard to make a project like that profitable.
angdis 11y ago
It certainly is possible, but there's more to making the operation of a synth "tactile" than adding knobs and sliders. If you're changing the parameters of something making a sound using a DSP, it is _REALLY_ hard to get instantaneous response and no digital artifacts in the sound. People who deign to make digital synths that truly act like modulars have a lot of DSP homework to do to get it right.
louthy 11y ago
It isn't even that. Each machine has it's own user interface quirks that arguably change the outcome of the piece you're working on. The classic example of this is the 303 which was originally designed as a 'robot' bass-guitar companion for a guitarist, but because of its user-interface and the way it could be pushed to extremes, you get acid-house and techno. There's also the latency issue of controlling anything via MIDI, a tweak of a filter will have a slight delay, and that can be enough to throw you out of the creative space you'd otherwise be in.

Not easily. The big problem - the one that has never been solved - is that software needs a programmable interface with fixed hardware controllers/knobs/sliders, but dynamic labelling. You can certainly imagine using modern controller and display technology to build such a thing - studio mixers have had similar features for years - but the price is always going to be prohibitive. And there's no standard display API for softsynths. (NI have tried to produce one called NKS, but it's early days.) And softsynths can have hundreds of parameters. Showing them all at once is always going to be a challenge. So most controller products either show nothing at all, or show a handle of items - like eight or so. Which are different for every synth. If a softsynth supports OSC you can fake the tactility on an iPad, but the small size is a problem; I expect the Pro will be better, but still limited. Music certainly works better when it's tactile, but - as someone who used to design and build modular hardware, occasionally for cash - I now find modulars rather ridiculous, and certainly just as limiting in their own ways as any other technology. They make great toys, but IMO the spirit of modulars - build completely new things to make new music - is a lot more alive in software than hardware now.

darkmighty 11y ago
Yup I'm learning to play an instrument and the tactile instant feedback is amazing; but software is clearly cheaper and infinitely more configurable (you're limited only by your memory, so basically there's no limitation!). It sounds like a worthwhile problem to look into making interfaces to bring that feedback to software.
kragen 11y ago
I feel like it isn't that hard to hook something like the BCR2000 or nanoKONTROL2 up to Pd, and then you can make labels for the knobs using paper stickers and a pen. Then you get to choose which few dozen parameters you want to have at your fingertips. And then you get a lot more tactility than an iPad. I also know a guy who drove his synth from a Wacom tablet, giving him X, Y, and pressure axes with low-latency, high-precision control, but no haptic feedback like the BCR2000 gives you.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  That's fine when you have a single patch/synth, but most projects have anywhere between a handful and tens of different synths. Novation have made automap systems for about ten years now. NI have made them for a couple of years. But aside from touch panel toys like the iPad and the Lemur, and some high-end mixers, I still haven't seen a system with more than eight knobs/digital labels. It wouldn't be hard to design one. Unfortunately in a market where $200 is a lot for a controller, it's hard to make a project like that profitable.

angdis 11y ago

It certainly is possible, but there's more to making the operation of a synth "tactile" than adding knobs and sliders. If you're changing the parameters of something making a sound using a DSP, it is _REALLY_ hard to get instantaneous response and no digital artifacts in the sound. People who deign to make digital synths that truly act like modulars have a lot of DSP homework to do to get it right.

louthy 11y ago

It isn't even that. Each machine has it's own user interface quirks that arguably change the outcome of the piece you're working on. The classic example of this is the 303 which was originally designed as a 'robot' bass-guitar companion for a guitarist, but because of its user-interface and the way it could be pushed to extremes, you get acid-house and techno. There's also the latency issue of controlling anything via MIDI, a tweak of a filter will have a slight delay, and that can be enough to throw you out of the creative space you'd otherwise be in.