4 ms·

Not sure what your point is. You seem to be suggesting that almost anyone who refuses to rote memorize math textbooks and score big marks in Exams(Which is exac

by kamaal 11y ago

Not sure what your point is. You seem to be suggesting that almost anyone who refuses to rote memorize math textbooks and score big marks in Exams(Which is exactly how the Indian educations system works, anyway) must never ever be given a chance to work overseas, ever. Not only are you wrong, you are off by a big margin. Firstly, mugging up pointless trivia and math theorems hasn't anything remotely to do with productivity. Which is the only thing that matters in workplaces today. You might be the biggest knowledge repository in your college, you might know everything there is to know if the books. But your knowledge is replaceable by a Google search, or worst anything that you can be learned by any guy in India with a smart phone and a internet connection(both very cheap and accessible today) without ever having to go to a college. In a world with such levels flattening, only thing that counts is ability to get things done with maximum levels of productivity. >>Today almost all of my classmates are in the US: thanks to H1B. You should be happy about it, rather than cribbing about it. >>nor did I want to do the shit work that is offered in these consulting companies (TCS, Infosys). The very fact that you consider some work beneath you is speaking volumes about your attitude and work ethic. Or may be explains why people like you despite being intelligent are often beaten by every other guy who is ready to burn 20 hours a day to get work done and make a living doing whatever is possible, working and making the best of whatever opportunity comes there way. People in those companies you describe aren't doing 'shit work' as you describe, they do whatever software work everybody else is doing for a lesser salary. Because that is the only opportunity they get, and trust me even after that they don't crib. They remain thankful for the opportunity in a country where people are dying of hunger, they use that opportunity to learn, coming from small towns and lower middle class to poor families they work 20 hours a day, building their career brick by brick making the best of whatever comes their way. Only to be later face people like you who deride the hard work they do to get there. >>I ended up getting a MS and PhD in a top non-US university that funded me and I'm still finding it difficult to join a US company, thanks to H1B being gamed. You really must stop blaming the whole world from your problems. >>These mediocre-to-hopeless students from India just apply to some university in the US for a Masters. You really should be thinking very hard how all these people you think are below you are able to make a living, while you aren't. >>Either it is a shit-degree from a mediocre university or a shit-degree from a shit-university (most of them seem to be in Texas). Doesn't matter. True thing, because what matter is what you are ready to sacrifice as immigrant in foreign nation with a hefty student loan. How much you are ready to burn your self to get where you want to be. Its not about intelligence or grades, its more than that.

throwaway29 11y ago
I accept that I should have elaborated my point by using better words than shit. I am from a small town in India and my family was lower middle class. My parents burnt up all they had just to pay for my Bachelor degree. That is the reason I could not afford a Masters degree in the US. And there surely are many students from my background who worked hard to get to where they are. That does not take away from what I see: Indians who have zero interest in computer science or even in their own work are grabbing the H1B of Indians (or Americans) who have that love and work hard.
- kamaal 11y ago
  I get it. So now repeat the same intensity of effort you applied in your education, in you your work. The results will follow. And please don't ever think you are some precious snowflake because of your university or grades. Things don't work that way in the real world and people learn it the hard way as they age. >>Indians who have zero interest in computer science or even in their own work are grabbing the H1B of Indians (or Americans) who have that love and work hard. I judge love towards one's work by commitment and what they are ready to do to get there and not by their ability to memorize trivia. On any given day I will hire a TCS/Infosys services guy with 3 years of experience than a M.S or even a Phd, with no experience- Very simply because, that guy would have lived and breathed struggles under tough budgets and demanding timelines. People with such a background can generally learn and do anything. When compared to graduates who expect special things to happen to them because of their marksheet and university. Either way, India or US. I can assure you- you are going to see ordinary hard working people will get far ahead of most engineers because of a strong work ethic. This should not surprise you even in time to come. The same applies to US too, don't expect basic things like these to change by changing countries. You may go to the US get a job. But you might find a Indian cab driver after a few years far ahead of you financially.
  - abc_lisper 11y ago
    I think you are being a little unfair to throwaway29. He specifically talks about the beauty and the joy of CS, which I think is an excellent attitude. And throwaway29, you seem to argue that it is unfair to you that you could top your university but not get a H-1B. Here's my personal take on it. It is going to be a little harsh. - First things first, Yeah, it is unfair to you. No question about it. A person of modest means has less chances to go ahead in life. Let not the hopefuls with rose colored glasses tell you life is going to be fair. That if you work hard, magic happens..There is just as much truth to it as flipping a coin. Look around. There are a lot of people who were born with a silver spoon, inherited property that is "now" worth a lot of money. And there are people who cannot seem to lift themselves out of their harsh life. There isn't a rule book to follow that guarantees anything. - The sharp sting of pain you may feel right now is because of your social conditioning; that you were led to believe that it ain't so, that hard work works! It may or may not. No body knows, nor anybody is responsible nor will anybody will hold themselves accountable because they said so. - Now that we have established that, I want you to really think why you want to go the US. Make money, learn or have a comfortable life? As Kamaal said, you are less likely to become rich as an engineer. If you wanted comfortable life, define for yourself what comfort is. There are downsides to being in the US. I have been here for 13 years now. No body talks about it, but you will feel lonely here. If you are one of "us" introverted types, who will keep to themselves, buddy, I have news for you. It is going to be very harsh. That loneliness will affect the way you think. Also, I haven't lit a Diwali cracker in all these years. You got to think about that. - Instead, if you want to learn things, there ain't a place like US anywhere. Concepts, things, ideas that seem unreachable are routinely done by people here. There you don't have feel envious about your H-1B brethren. They are totally missing out on it. They are like cattle in a castle, who know no different, nor feel any difference. They are going to pee and poop on the throne without realizing it, just like cattle. There are blindingly smart people here. If you don't get to work with some of them I feel you missed out the best thing that you can get by living here. TL;DR - There are negatives and positives about living in the US. Think carefully if you really want to be here. And don't expend energy feeling bad about yourself. Life is finite, harsh and unfair.

by kamaal 11y ago

throwaway29 11y ago

I accept that I should have elaborated my point by using better words than shit. I am from a small town in India and my family was lower middle class. My parents burnt up all they had just to pay for my Bachelor degree. That is the reason I could not afford a Masters degree in the US. And there surely are many students from my background who worked hard to get to where they are. That does not take away from what I see: Indians who have zero interest in computer science or even in their own work are grabbing the H1B of Indians (or Americans) who have that love and work hard.

kamaal 11y ago
I get it. So now repeat the same intensity of effort you applied in your education, in you your work. The results will follow. And please don't ever think you are some precious snowflake because of your university or grades. Things don't work that way in the real world and people learn it the hard way as they age. >>Indians who have zero interest in computer science or even in their own work are grabbing the H1B of Indians (or Americans) who have that love and work hard. I judge love towards one's work by commitment and what they are ready to do to get there and not by their ability to memorize trivia. On any given day I will hire a TCS/Infosys services guy with 3 years of experience than a M.S or even a Phd, with no experience- Very simply because, that guy would have lived and breathed struggles under tough budgets and demanding timelines. People with such a background can generally learn and do anything. When compared to graduates who expect special things to happen to them because of their marksheet and university. Either way, India or US. I can assure you- you are going to see ordinary hard working people will get far ahead of most engineers because of a strong work ethic. This should not surprise you even in time to come. The same applies to US too, don't expect basic things like these to change by changing countries. You may go to the US get a job. But you might find a Indian cab driver after a few years far ahead of you financially.
- abc_lisper 11y ago
  I think you are being a little unfair to throwaway29. He specifically talks about the beauty and the joy of CS, which I think is an excellent attitude. And throwaway29, you seem to argue that it is unfair to you that you could top your university but not get a H-1B. Here's my personal take on it. It is going to be a little harsh. - First things first, Yeah, it is unfair to you. No question about it. A person of modest means has less chances to go ahead in life. Let not the hopefuls with rose colored glasses tell you life is going to be fair. That if you work hard, magic happens..There is just as much truth to it as flipping a coin. Look around. There are a lot of people who were born with a silver spoon, inherited property that is "now" worth a lot of money. And there are people who cannot seem to lift themselves out of their harsh life. There isn't a rule book to follow that guarantees anything. - The sharp sting of pain you may feel right now is because of your social conditioning; that you were led to believe that it ain't so, that hard work works! It may or may not. No body knows, nor anybody is responsible nor will anybody will hold themselves accountable because they said so. - Now that we have established that, I want you to really think why you want to go the US. Make money, learn or have a comfortable life? As Kamaal said, you are less likely to become rich as an engineer. If you wanted comfortable life, define for yourself what comfort is. There are downsides to being in the US. I have been here for 13 years now. No body talks about it, but you will feel lonely here. If you are one of "us" introverted types, who will keep to themselves, buddy, I have news for you. It is going to be very harsh. That loneliness will affect the way you think. Also, I haven't lit a Diwali cracker in all these years. You got to think about that. - Instead, if you want to learn things, there ain't a place like US anywhere. Concepts, things, ideas that seem unreachable are routinely done by people here. There you don't have feel envious about your H-1B brethren. They are totally missing out on it. They are like cattle in a castle, who know no different, nor feel any difference. They are going to pee and poop on the throne without realizing it, just like cattle. There are blindingly smart people here. If you don't get to work with some of them I feel you missed out the best thing that you can get by living here. TL;DR - There are negatives and positives about living in the US. Think carefully if you really want to be here. And don't expend energy feeling bad about yourself. Life is finite, harsh and unfair.