7 ms·

This is exactly the right move: The H1B abusers all have the same business model: Pretend like they can't find an American to do the job (when in reality they

by JPKab 11y ago

This is exactly the right move: The H1B abusers all have the same business model: Pretend like they can't find an American to do the job (when in reality they can but their client is willing to pay enough) and then fill it. In the end, everyone loses, because you just get a non-exceptional immigrant in place of an exceptional immigrant. I've got co-workers who are brilliant guys who have had to go back to their country, while Tata, Wipro, and all the other parasites land H1Bs so they can place a SQL Server admin who works for $45K a year and is afraid to take vacations.

bduerst 11y ago
Except these are wages, not POS goods on ebay. Wages are typically set months in advance of sponsorship, and the volatility from an auction would deter most from even hiring during OPT. Lottery volatility is already making it hard, but an auction favors employers like the H1B shops who have more market signals and tips it in their favor. Since the bidding is a solution to a problem caused by the cap on # of H1B visas, why not just do away with the cap?
- cameldrv 11y ago
  The best part about the auction model is that you could have it monthly, and then the winning bid would be fairly well known in advance. Say it's 80k for a software developer, you know that you need to pay the guy 81k or don't bother. This also massively reduces the power of the wipros of the world that employ thousands of people and apply for all of them every year, filling up the quota for people that don't already work for an outsourcing company.
  - bduerst 11y ago
    Again, why not just remove the cap? If you're rearranging the application process to solve problems created with the bidding, which is to solve problems from created from cap, why not just solve the original problem? The review process and due diligence for H1B takes months, so signals are still only available in large intervals, which creates volatility that favors high quantity employers like H1B shops.
    - jacalata 11y ago
      Because the cap is a response to the US desire to not allow in an unlimited number of foreigners.
      - bduerst 11y ago
        An unlimited amount of foreigners can't qualify for the H1B visa. The H1B is specifically for educated & highly skilled immigrants, who has a sponsoring employer and is paid more than the average U.S. citizen for the same job in the same area.
        JPKab 11y ago
        Except that the outsourcing firms game this system so that this isn't at all true. Take a look at the publicly disclosed H1B data. Walmart hired people under a lower paid category with the job title 'Data Scientist' for $70K a year. Let's talk about India, since that's where over half of H1Bs come from: Educated: Yes, if you want to call a degree from an institution that most likely taught rote learning instead of critical thinking, with massive numbers of students cheating because the culture favors cheating if you can get away with it. Highly Skilled: This is where the rote learning comes in. Shops which simply pirate some particular enterprise software product, train people how to use it (SAP anything, Business Objects, Microstrategy, Informatica, you name it) and then profit. You then end up with a resource who comes to America knowing Informatica and/or datastage, but suddenly you find out they don't know SQL. Yes, this happened.
        bduerst 11y ago
        What are you talking about? The median Wal-Mart data scientist H1B salary in 2015 was $140,000 [1]. There are lot of Indian H1B immigrants who are educated and highly skilled - are you sure you just don't have a passive racial bias? [1] http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=WAL-MART+ASSOCIATES+INC&job=DATA+SCIENTIST&city=&year=All http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=WAL-MART+ASSOCIATES+INC&job...
- WildUtah 11y ago
  "why not just do away with the cap?" Because there are far, far too many low wage foreign programmers driving down wages already. Why not abolish the program entirely? That's far more palatable.
tn13 11y ago
Are you aware that there are companies which "take money" from Indians to sponsor them H1B, bring them to USA, run fake payrolls while this chap works at local restaurant as a bus boy for below minimum wage ?
tomtang0514 11y ago
This is the answer. Lottery is so much of BS. Sort by wage guarantees that person is not kicking out any american and he/she is good enough for the company to paid him that much. But instead of having one big array of all jobs together, having separate arrays base on industry and occupation is better. And the gov can adjust the size of each array base on what kind of talent they need at that time. BTW, I've heard some indian people submit multiple applications thru multiple companies. It looks like USCIS is not very good at catching it.

by JPKab 11y ago

bduerst 11y ago

Except these are wages, not POS goods on ebay. Wages are typically set months in advance of sponsorship, and the volatility from an auction would deter most from even hiring during OPT. Lottery volatility is already making it hard, but an auction favors employers like the H1B shops who have more market signals and tips it in their favor. Since the bidding is a solution to a problem caused by the cap on # of H1B visas, why not just do away with the cap?

cameldrv 11y ago
The best part about the auction model is that you could have it monthly, and then the winning bid would be fairly well known in advance. Say it's 80k for a software developer, you know that you need to pay the guy 81k or don't bother. This also massively reduces the power of the wipros of the world that employ thousands of people and apply for all of them every year, filling up the quota for people that don't already work for an outsourcing company.
- bduerst 11y ago
  Again, why not just remove the cap? If you're rearranging the application process to solve problems created with the bidding, which is to solve problems from created from cap, why not just solve the original problem? The review process and due diligence for H1B takes months, so signals are still only available in large intervals, which creates volatility that favors high quantity employers like H1B shops.
  - jacalata 11y ago
    Because the cap is a response to the US desire to not allow in an unlimited number of foreigners.
    - bduerst 11y ago
      An unlimited amount of foreigners can't qualify for the H1B visa. The H1B is specifically for educated & highly skilled immigrants, who has a sponsoring employer and is paid more than the average U.S. citizen for the same job in the same area.
      - JPKab 11y ago
        Except that the outsourcing firms game this system so that this isn't at all true. Take a look at the publicly disclosed H1B data. Walmart hired people under a lower paid category with the job title 'Data Scientist' for $70K a year. Let's talk about India, since that's where over half of H1Bs come from: Educated: Yes, if you want to call a degree from an institution that most likely taught rote learning instead of critical thinking, with massive numbers of students cheating because the culture favors cheating if you can get away with it. Highly Skilled: This is where the rote learning comes in. Shops which simply pirate some particular enterprise software product, train people how to use it (SAP anything, Business Objects, Microstrategy, Informatica, you name it) and then profit. You then end up with a resource who comes to America knowing Informatica and/or datastage, but suddenly you find out they don't know SQL. Yes, this happened.
        bduerst 11y ago
        What are you talking about? The median Wal-Mart data scientist H1B salary in 2015 was $140,000 [1]. There are lot of Indian H1B immigrants who are educated and highly skilled - are you sure you just don't have a passive racial bias? [1] http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=WAL-MART+ASSOCIATES+INC&job=DATA+SCIENTIST&city=&year=All http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=WAL-MART+ASSOCIATES+INC&job...
WildUtah 11y ago
"why not just do away with the cap?" Because there are far, far too many low wage foreign programmers driving down wages already. Why not abolish the program entirely? That's far more palatable.

tn13 11y ago

Are you aware that there are companies which "take money" from Indians to sponsor them H1B, bring them to USA, run fake payrolls while this chap works at local restaurant as a bus boy for below minimum wage ?

tomtang0514 11y ago

This is the answer. Lottery is so much of BS. Sort by wage guarantees that person is not kicking out any american and he/she is good enough for the company to paid him that much. But instead of having one big array of all jobs together, having separate arrays base on industry and occupation is better. And the gov can adjust the size of each array base on what kind of talent they need at that time. BTW, I've heard some indian people submit multiple applications thru multiple companies. It looks like USCIS is not very good at catching it.