4 ms·

Great post, all this exaggerate promotion of feminism only alienates men and makes them actively avoid women as colleagues. You may never know now, if she's one

by kbart 11y ago

Great post, all this exaggerate promotion of feminism only alienates men and makes them actively avoid women as colleagues. You may never know now, if she's one of those overzealous "women's right defenders" that will sue you for accidentally touching her, glancing at inappropriate body parts for a split of a second or overheard "sexist" joke. Actually, not even suit is required -- blog post is enough to ruin your career[0]. Such aggressive promotion of feminism (in today's terms) only makes the gap between genders even deeper -- the exact opposite of this movement's stated goal. No wonder that really clever women start to understand such aggressive confrontation only worsens the situation and form a counter-movement[1]. 0. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spiraled-way-out-of-control/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spiraled... 1. http://womenformen.org/mission/ http://womenformen.org/mission/

jld89 11y ago
Yes completely agree. Let's hope that real equality can be achieved without spiraling into a quest for women's supremacy. It is no wonder that more and more men refuse to express their views about the issue for fear of being called out or for fear of putting their reputations on the line.
vijayr 11y ago
Same with kids too. Men are already scared to enter professions like teaching, hesitant to help when they find a kid lost in a shopping mall etc. Some airlines have a "policy" of not allowing single men to sit next to kids in their planes, some parks don't allow single men - as if the entire male population is criminal. Ridiculous.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  At least with kids it is equally applied. The average man treats boys and girls as both a potential threat and thus avoids being alone with either. But for women in the workplace, it isn't equal because the average man is far more worried about a false compliant from a woman than a man, thus they will work closer with other men, will be more willing to work one on one with other men, and other such small choices. Each choice isn't a big deal, but there are so many that over a few years it can vastly impact working relationships, almost making lite version of the old boy's club. For example, the male coworkers from an old job I go to eat out with once a week never invite women. Every now and then some come along and they don't deny any who want to join, but in general they want to hang out with 'the guys' because they realize there are different social rules to such a gathering. This leads to them building up social connections that can offer them a greater advantage.
LifeQuestioner 11y ago
As a women in tech, I very much agree with you. However, i've never had sexual harassment in work, but I do have it in public a few times a year so I do know how it feels. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but i've been coding every week from the age of 13 (i'm 23 now). I've genuinely have next to always never felt anything but respect from my Male/Female colleagues. I'm a bit of a tom-boy though :). On the rare occasion I ever felt I was not being taken seriously, I worked twice as hard to show and prove to them why I should be. Okay, fair enough, I shouldn't have to do that but I don't really care, it is what it is, I like the challenge and i'd rather provide evidence through my produced work than argue for ages about crap that won't get me anywhere. Or complain and blame others. My life is in my control. And it's not just being female that means I have to do that - people from different ethnic origins will do, people who have disabilities will do to prove their worth. It's just life.
- kbart 11y ago
  I'm only talking from my personal experience, but IT is one of the most welcoming field for women as it's mostly skill and abilities that matters. Those few women I've encountered at the university or professional career were really respected by their male peers, and I've never heard any single sexist negative remark (not to mention harassment attempts) during these years. Of course, there are a$$holes and jerks everywhere - IT is not an exception - but blaming a whole group (namely white males) based on few anecdotal evidences is just another stereotyping. I live/work in Europe, so maybe situation is different on the other side of a pond, I don't know. IMHO, the reason there are few women in tech is fairly simple -- most girls don't like hard science and I don't believe it has something to do with stereotypes or cultural influences, but that's another topic. And it's not just being female that means I have to do that - people from different ethnic origins will do, people who have disabilities will do to prove their worth. As a white male, I'd argue that everyone (at least those, who are on their own) has to prove their worth, especially in a junior position. Taking into account your young age, I guess you fit in this category as well. P.S. it's always nice to see a girl interested in coding, good luck and may your skills guide your career, not complaints and threats!
  - 11y ago

by kbart 11y ago

jld89 11y ago

Yes completely agree. Let's hope that real equality can be achieved without spiraling into a quest for women's supremacy. It is no wonder that more and more men refuse to express their views about the issue for fear of being called out or for fear of putting their reputations on the line.

vijayr 11y ago

Same with kids too. Men are already scared to enter professions like teaching, hesitant to help when they find a kid lost in a shopping mall etc. Some airlines have a "policy" of not allowing single men to sit next to kids in their planes, some parks don't allow single men - as if the entire male population is criminal. Ridiculous.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
At least with kids it is equally applied. The average man treats boys and girls as both a potential threat and thus avoids being alone with either. But for women in the workplace, it isn't equal because the average man is far more worried about a false compliant from a woman than a man, thus they will work closer with other men, will be more willing to work one on one with other men, and other such small choices. Each choice isn't a big deal, but there are so many that over a few years it can vastly impact working relationships, almost making lite version of the old boy's club. For example, the male coworkers from an old job I go to eat out with once a week never invite women. Every now and then some come along and they don't deny any who want to join, but in general they want to hang out with 'the guys' because they realize there are different social rules to such a gathering. This leads to them building up social connections that can offer them a greater advantage.

LifeQuestioner 11y ago

As a women in tech, I very much agree with you. However, i've never had sexual harassment in work, but I do have it in public a few times a year so I do know how it feels. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but i've been coding every week from the age of 13 (i'm 23 now). I've genuinely have next to always never felt anything but respect from my Male/Female colleagues. I'm a bit of a tom-boy though :). On the rare occasion I ever felt I was not being taken seriously, I worked twice as hard to show and prove to them why I should be. Okay, fair enough, I shouldn't have to do that but I don't really care, it is what it is, I like the challenge and i'd rather provide evidence through my produced work than argue for ages about crap that won't get me anywhere. Or complain and blame others. My life is in my control. And it's not just being female that means I have to do that - people from different ethnic origins will do, people who have disabilities will do to prove their worth. It's just life.

kbart 11y ago
I'm only talking from my personal experience, but IT is one of the most welcoming field for women as it's mostly skill and abilities that matters. Those few women I've encountered at the university or professional career were really respected by their male peers, and I've never heard any single sexist negative remark (not to mention harassment attempts) during these years. Of course, there are a$$holes and jerks everywhere - IT is not an exception - but blaming a whole group (namely white males) based on few anecdotal evidences is just another stereotyping. I live/work in Europe, so maybe situation is different on the other side of a pond, I don't know. IMHO, the reason there are few women in tech is fairly simple -- most girls don't like hard science and I don't believe it has something to do with stereotypes or cultural influences, but that's another topic. And it's not just being female that means I have to do that - people from different ethnic origins will do, people who have disabilities will do to prove their worth. As a white male, I'd argue that everyone (at least those, who are on their own) has to prove their worth, especially in a junior position. Taking into account your young age, I guess you fit in this category as well. P.S. it's always nice to see a girl interested in coding, good luck and may your skills guide your career, not complaints and threats!
- 11y ago