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Most people are unwilling to share even if they have it good. Much of Western Europe today is fairly wealthy, yet we're unwilling to accept refugees.

by sspiff 11y ago

guard-of-terra 11y ago
Being wealthy and not feeling threatened is two distinct things. You can have one, none, or both. You can easily persuade people who feel safe to share in order to create safety net. When you can't, this means you have a problem with safety which you should be solving instead of blaming people.
saiya-jin 11y ago
Nope. Look at europe, walk through any major city, be it London, Geneva, Paris, Stockholm etc. You will see huge amounts of immigrants, some naturalized already, some not there yet but trying. You'll find only few places so open to migrants in this world, we are doing our part of sharing, continuously. But this is not the way world can be fixed in long term. What is of of main issues now (at least to me & people around me) is (potential) pace of immigration and its potential to grow exponentially - we don't have endless space to absorb as many economical migrants as there are/might be. Our economies are not in super good shape, unemployment is bad in many places (or outright horriblein southern parts, 50% unemployment of youth has/will have devastating effect on future shape of these economies). If they could financially and there would be +- guarantee of success, half of Africa (say 300 million) and massive amounts of Asia would stand up and try to come here, leaving their dysfunctional home countries. And we all know that there are some really bad places to be born to. For example, many many young people from North Africa, ie Morocco are trying this either via boats or turkey/greece border for many years already. If somebody takes few 1000s kms journey through 10 different sovereign, stable and peaceful states and decides to end up in say Germany, he is not refugee fleeing for his life - that status ends after he willingly leaves first safe country. I don't blame them, I would do the same if I had the option, but let's call things with proper names. And there are some limits for economical migrants of how much our societies can/are willing to absorb. Another topic is a major failure of immigrants to integrate in the past and accept european values (there is plenty of exceptions, but they are what they are, exceptions). But that's a topic on its own, and highly controversial one. I am for example economical migrant myself, albeit only within europe (Slovakia -> Switzerland). First thing I did is to accept all the rules of my new country, don't expect that world will bend for my needs and expectations, and just be part of society, learn the language, etc. I am still amazed how Swiss are tolerant when their tiny country is overrun by foreigners.
seivan 11y ago
I mean you could be right, everything is relative. But what are you comparing to? Japan? Qatar? Saudi? Immigrants aren't homogenous, so the opposition isn't either.
NoCulturalFit 11y ago
Not sure if the concept of Hirja existed during Rome, but you might want to look into it. I don't want to live near islamists and my mother doesn't want to be called a whore in arabic for not wearing hijab - yeah my mum speaks Arabic. You can't refrain from the fact that majority of the refugees are islamists in a sense that they deem apostasy as a crime and homosexuality punishable by death.
- cynicalkane 11y ago
  > You can't refrain from the fact that majority of the refugees are islamists in a sense that they deem apostasy as a crime and homosexuality punishable by death. I am 97% sure you completely made up that statistic.
  - NoCulturalFit 11y ago
    http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi... I am pretty sure you need to read up. I grew up in a muslim ghetto. My parents were both born in muslim countries. As a math guy I am sure you can figure out that any percentage of 1.6 billion sure is a large chunk of people.
eimai134 11y ago
Western Europe is about the only place that's accepting refugees. Where do you think the top places that are accepting refugees are?

Most people are unwilling to share even if they have it good. Much of Western Europe today is fairly wealthy, yet we're unwilling to accept refugees.

by sspiff 11y ago

Most people are unwilling to share even if they have it good. Much of Western Europe today is fairly wealthy, yet we're unwilling to accept refugees.

guard-of-terra 11y ago

Being wealthy and not feeling threatened is two distinct things. You can have one, none, or both. You can easily persuade people who feel safe to share in order to create safety net. When you can't, this means you have a problem with safety which you should be solving instead of blaming people.

saiya-jin 11y ago

Nope. Look at europe, walk through any major city, be it London, Geneva, Paris, Stockholm etc. You will see huge amounts of immigrants, some naturalized already, some not there yet but trying. You'll find only few places so open to migrants in this world, we are doing our part of sharing, continuously. But this is not the way world can be fixed in long term. What is of of main issues now (at least to me & people around me) is (potential) pace of immigration and its potential to grow exponentially - we don't have endless space to absorb as many economical migrants as there are/might be. Our economies are not in super good shape, unemployment is bad in many places (or outright horriblein southern parts, 50% unemployment of youth has/will have devastating effect on future shape of these economies). If they could financially and there would be +- guarantee of success, half of Africa (say 300 million) and massive amounts of Asia would stand up and try to come here, leaving their dysfunctional home countries. And we all know that there are some really bad places to be born to. For example, many many young people from North Africa, ie Morocco are trying this either via boats or turkey/greece border for many years already. If somebody takes few 1000s kms journey through 10 different sovereign, stable and peaceful states and decides to end up in say Germany, he is not refugee fleeing for his life - that status ends after he willingly leaves first safe country. I don't blame them, I would do the same if I had the option, but let's call things with proper names. And there are some limits for economical migrants of how much our societies can/are willing to absorb. Another topic is a major failure of immigrants to integrate in the past and accept european values (there is plenty of exceptions, but they are what they are, exceptions). But that's a topic on its own, and highly controversial one. I am for example economical migrant myself, albeit only within europe (Slovakia -> Switzerland). First thing I did is to accept all the rules of my new country, don't expect that world will bend for my needs and expectations, and just be part of society, learn the language, etc. I am still amazed how Swiss are tolerant when their tiny country is overrun by foreigners.

seivan 11y ago

I mean you could be right, everything is relative. But what are you comparing to? Japan? Qatar? Saudi? Immigrants aren't homogenous, so the opposition isn't either.

NoCulturalFit 11y ago

Not sure if the concept of Hirja existed during Rome, but you might want to look into it. I don't want to live near islamists and my mother doesn't want to be called a whore in arabic for not wearing hijab - yeah my mum speaks Arabic. You can't refrain from the fact that majority of the refugees are islamists in a sense that they deem apostasy as a crime and homosexuality punishable by death.

cynicalkane 11y ago
> You can't refrain from the fact that majority of the refugees are islamists in a sense that they deem apostasy as a crime and homosexuality punishable by death. I am 97% sure you completely made up that statistic.
- NoCulturalFit 11y ago
  http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi... I am pretty sure you need to read up. I grew up in a muslim ghetto. My parents were both born in muslim countries. As a math guy I am sure you can figure out that any percentage of 1.6 billion sure is a large chunk of people.

eimai134 11y ago

Western Europe is about the only place that's accepting refugees. Where do you think the top places that are accepting refugees are?