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No surprise that literally the worst article on the Yale race issue would be the one that shoots up HN. > Erika Christakis' ... message was a model of relevant

by Steko 11y ago

No surprise that literally the worst article on the Yale race issue would be the one that shoots up HN. > Erika Christakis' ... message was a model of relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement. That is a parody of bullshit. She refers repeatedly about "censure and prohibition but do read the email she is complaining about [1] and tell me where the requirements are: [1] http://pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg http://pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg > Yale is a community that values free expression as well as inclusivity. And while students, undergraduate and graduate, definitely have a right to express themselves, we would hope that people would actively avoid those circumstances that threaten our sense of community or disrespects, alienates or ridicules segments of our population based on race, nationality, religious belief or gender expression... There is growing national concern on campuses everywhere about these issues, and we encourage Yale students to take the time to consider their costumes and the impact it may have. So, if you are planning to dress-up for Halloween, or will be attending any social gatherings planned for the weekend, please ask yourself these questions before deciding upon your costume choice From the genius annotations to her email [2] by April Joyner: [2] http://genius.com/8083098 http://genius.com/8083098 > it is hard for me to give credence to a claim that there is something objectionably “appropriative” about a blonde-haired child’s wanting to be Mulan for a day This is an example of a straw man argument. The original email from the Intercultural Affairs Council said nothing about blond-haired children wanting to be Mulan—or children at all. The email listed “wearing feathered headdresses, turbans, wearing ‘war paint’ or modifying skin tone or wearing blackface or redface” as examples of Halloween costumery that could be culturally insensitive. Christakis also likens college students, most of whom (legally speaking) are adults, to young children.

tptacek 11y ago
There are plenty of things in Erika Christakis email I disagree with too. But the student protesters aren't demanding that their disagreement be heard. They're demanding that Nicholas and Erika Christakis resign from their position over it.
- Steko 11y ago
  My main point here was the tone of Friesendorf's article and his ridiculous glorifying of Erika Christakis' email which starts off 'I don't wish to trivialize' and then proceeeds to (foreshadowing) actually trivialize the issue by reducing concerns about college students in blackface to 6 year olds wanting to dress up like Mulan. For the larger issue of whether her husband or she or both should resign/be fired or not that's a more complicated issue and I don't see much of a serious conversation in the comments here. For people who's job description includes being "responsible for the physical well being and safety of students" to be this tone deaf on race[1], resignation strikes me as a legitimate demand. [1] "Nicholas says, if you don’t like a costume someone is wearing, look away, or tell them you are offended." The less said about 'look away' as a policy, the better. As far as 'telling people what is offensive', correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that exactly what was happening in the first place when they sent out an email that essentially said 'maybe don't be an asshole this Halloween'?
jegutman 11y ago
Your reaction seems strong, but I still thank you for sharing the original e-mail (through the annotations). It seems like both the original e-mail and the response were both within reason actually. Remember the second e-mail was not just responding to the first e-mail, but also to the reaction to the first e-mail. Email 1 tldr: You might not realize that people find your cultural stereotypes offensive, please be considerate (although the explicit list of costumes felt a little too much like trying to give a pre-approved list of costumes). Email 2: Not all things that are offensive should be banned, engage with people. I however suspect that on the student level the discourse seemed much less civilized which is why the whole thing is blowing up. I actually don't think the blond-haired girl example is a complete straw man. She was just trying to show that there was a large area between "probably okay" and "probably not okay" where people probably weren't able to agree, but people could still put outer bounds on. Also while this might not have been a complaint in the original e-mail, it very well could have been a complained the reaction to the first e-mail generated.

by Steko 11y ago

tptacek 11y ago

There are plenty of things in Erika Christakis email I disagree with too. But the student protesters aren't demanding that their disagreement be heard. They're demanding that Nicholas and Erika Christakis resign from their position over it.

Steko 11y ago
My main point here was the tone of Friesendorf's article and his ridiculous glorifying of Erika Christakis' email which starts off 'I don't wish to trivialize' and then proceeeds to (foreshadowing) actually trivialize the issue by reducing concerns about college students in blackface to 6 year olds wanting to dress up like Mulan. For the larger issue of whether her husband or she or both should resign/be fired or not that's a more complicated issue and I don't see much of a serious conversation in the comments here. For people who's job description includes being "responsible for the physical well being and safety of students" to be this tone deaf on race[1], resignation strikes me as a legitimate demand. [1] "Nicholas says, if you don’t like a costume someone is wearing, look away, or tell them you are offended." The less said about 'look away' as a policy, the better. As far as 'telling people what is offensive', correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that exactly what was happening in the first place when they sent out an email that essentially said 'maybe don't be an asshole this Halloween'?

jegutman 11y ago

Your reaction seems strong, but I still thank you for sharing the original e-mail (through the annotations). It seems like both the original e-mail and the response were both within reason actually. Remember the second e-mail was not just responding to the first e-mail, but also to the reaction to the first e-mail. Email 1 tldr: You might not realize that people find your cultural stereotypes offensive, please be considerate (although the explicit list of costumes felt a little too much like trying to give a pre-approved list of costumes). Email 2: Not all things that are offensive should be banned, engage with people. I however suspect that on the student level the discourse seemed much less civilized which is why the whole thing is blowing up. I actually don't think the blond-haired girl example is a complete straw man. She was just trying to show that there was a large area between "probably okay" and "probably not okay" where people probably weren't able to agree, but people could still put outer bounds on. Also while this might not have been a complaint in the original e-mail, it very well could have been a complained the reaction to the first e-mail generated.