4 ms·

They seem to be okay with freedom of speech for themselves, but not for the freedom of speech that goes with a reaction. Furthermore, why should freedom of spee

They seem to be okay with freedom of speech for themselves, but not for the freedom of speech that goes with a reaction. Furthermore, why should freedom of speech trump community? We all recognize that in certain groups you don't just say whatever you want for the sake of it (e.g. try that at work and see how long you last); harmony within a community is important. Arguing for knowingly offensive speech/actions negates the importance of harmony.

gambler 11y ago
> They seem to be okay with freedom of speech for themselves, but not for the freedom of speech that goes with a reaction. The concept of freedom of speech exists to preserve people's ability to communicate and express ideas. The "reaction" you refer to is merely an attempt to control the behavior of others. They are not equivalent.
harryh 11y ago
For reference here is Erika Christakis's original email: http://pastebin.com/egSQGfgK http://pastebin.com/egSQGfgK Describing it as "knowingly offensive" seems pretty crazy to me (though obviously others disagree).
Jtsummers 11y ago
Per the letter she isn't arguing for offensive speech, she's asking (among other things) when does certain speech (here represented by costumes) become offensive? A paraphrase: Why can my friend's 5-year old white daughter dress as Mulan, but a 22-year old white woman can't? That's a valid question. She's not declaring that the latter is ok, but asking why we currently accept the former and not the latter. At what age is the distinction made between "Oh, she's so precious" and "She's appropriating a culture that's not her own!"? And if you want to go with community and what's appropriate. It's a fucking college. Colleges are places of discussion, learning and debate. College is the place to be offended. To learn why something is offensive, why something else is not, and determine whether offense is appropriate or not.
- iofj 11y ago
  As a non-American, what is wrong with a 22-year old white woman dressing as Mulan ?
  - mhuffman 11y ago
    Nothing. Very sensitive people get pissed over anything and everything. Sadly those people have time on their hands to write, picket, and generally get attention.
  - intopieces 11y ago
    There is a tendency for white people to take reduction of other races and wear them as a way to make fun of that race/culture. Black face is a good example. The group of people being made fun of see this as another way of not being recognized for anything but their cultural stereotype. The line for this, however, is not universally agreed upon. Some seem to advocate that any cross-cultural dress-up is offensive, other believe any criticism at all is a violation of their 'free speech'.
    - WalterSear 11y ago
      In the context of this discussion, that statement borders on the offensive. There's a tendency for people of all races to take reduction of other races and wear them as a way to make fun of that race/culture. To presume otherwise is to fall into the same trap as the students being discussed here.
      - intopieces 11y ago
        Sure. But not all races are in charge in America, so it hardly matters. White people are the ones who enslaved black people, kicked American Indians off of their land, etc. The offensiveness is ultimately in the context of historical power. Without this context, it's all made up. This is precisely why the protests against the museum in Boston were nonsensical: the US doesn't exert cultural dominance over Japan.

gambler 11y ago

> They seem to be okay with freedom of speech for themselves, but not for the freedom of speech that goes with a reaction. The concept of freedom of speech exists to preserve people's ability to communicate and express ideas. The "reaction" you refer to is merely an attempt to control the behavior of others. They are not equivalent.

harryh 11y ago

For reference here is Erika Christakis's original email: http://pastebin.com/egSQGfgK http://pastebin.com/egSQGfgK Describing it as "knowingly offensive" seems pretty crazy to me (though obviously others disagree).

Jtsummers 11y ago

Per the letter she isn't arguing for offensive speech, she's asking (among other things) when does certain speech (here represented by costumes) become offensive? A paraphrase: Why can my friend's 5-year old white daughter dress as Mulan, but a 22-year old white woman can't? That's a valid question. She's not declaring that the latter is ok, but asking why we currently accept the former and not the latter. At what age is the distinction made between "Oh, she's so precious" and "She's appropriating a culture that's not her own!"? And if you want to go with community and what's appropriate. It's a fucking college. Colleges are places of discussion, learning and debate. College is the place to be offended. To learn why something is offensive, why something else is not, and determine whether offense is appropriate or not.

iofj 11y ago
As a non-American, what is wrong with a 22-year old white woman dressing as Mulan ?
- mhuffman 11y ago
  Nothing. Very sensitive people get pissed over anything and everything. Sadly those people have time on their hands to write, picket, and generally get attention.
- intopieces 11y ago
  There is a tendency for white people to take reduction of other races and wear them as a way to make fun of that race/culture. Black face is a good example. The group of people being made fun of see this as another way of not being recognized for anything but their cultural stereotype. The line for this, however, is not universally agreed upon. Some seem to advocate that any cross-cultural dress-up is offensive, other believe any criticism at all is a violation of their 'free speech'.
  - WalterSear 11y ago
    In the context of this discussion, that statement borders on the offensive. There's a tendency for people of all races to take reduction of other races and wear them as a way to make fun of that race/culture. To presume otherwise is to fall into the same trap as the students being discussed here.
    - intopieces 11y ago
      Sure. But not all races are in charge in America, so it hardly matters. White people are the ones who enslaved black people, kicked American Indians off of their land, etc. The offensiveness is ultimately in the context of historical power. Without this context, it's all made up. This is precisely why the protests against the museum in Boston were nonsensical: the US doesn't exert cultural dominance over Japan.