8 ms·

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is

by cjhveal 11y ago

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is over 15 grams of vitamin C, an order of magnitude larger than the daily recommended dose for adult humans). Certainly being skeptical is still warranted, as OP is correct, there are significant differences in how this particular compound is handled species to species. However, simply that mice produce ascorbic acid does not imply that they produce it in quantity great enough to impact this kind of tumor.

Amorymeltzer 11y ago
No of course not. It does mean that this particular pathway is very different in the mouse model, and studies of vitamin C and mice should be taken with an extra grain of salt.
- cjhveal 11y ago
  In this regard, I think we agree very much! I simply wanted to point out that the specific example that they endogenously synthesize ascorbic acid wasn't a great reason for why this particular trial wouldn't be valid. Be skeptical of any scientific claim made, especially around possible links between animal models and human clinical environment, and even more especially when the systems involved are not highly conserved cross species.
mtgx 11y ago
Isn't it dangerous for a human to take that much in a day? What about for a month every day?
- cjhveal 11y ago
  Mega-dosing vitamin C is fairly common among alternative medicine practitioners. The medical community recommends an upper limit of 2g per day for adults due to mild laxative effects around that dosage. There's a paucity of trials that experiment with dosages above that level, so long term effects are mostly unknown.
- majkinetor 11y ago
  Not at all. I experimented 5+ years with it and took on several occasions 100+g per day with regular input between 10-15g per day. The only problem I had after 5 years is slight pain in esophagus immediately after taking C, but it passed after I switched to taking C on full stomach. Note: you MUST use pure AA powder, nothing else. Timing of C is essential - you must do it right, or the effects are minimal (you basically have to simulate the liver ancestral production now disabled in humans). Vitamin C is a miracle thing IMO, especially 4 kids. My daughter was taking 1g since age 1 (now has 5) and she has remarkable health (she is sick once or twice per year for 2-4 days without any complications with being in kindergarten with 30+ kids since age 1, although the non-vitamin-c factors are contributing to this picture quite a bit). Vitamin C is the most effective virus killer in large doses if you time it right. It is poor antibiotic but you have many options in plant world for that.
  - mb_72 11y ago
    These are fairly typical anecdotal comments made by people pushing Vitamin C cures / treatment, often in conjunction with mention of 'miracles'. Oblig xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/
    - majkinetor 11y ago
      What can I say, it works for me and few more people I know. But the argument you are giving is quite pointless - vitamin C has no side effects and it is dead cheap so there is no harm in trying it out for several months and deciding on your own if its good or not for you.
      - mb_72 11y ago
        > What can I say, it works for me and few more people I know. You don't know that - it could have been other unknown factors that made the difference. The same claims of 'working' are made for homoeopathy etc. In general 'trying stuff' is a waste of effort, time and money unless there is supporting evidence for efficacy.

by cjhveal 11y ago

Amorymeltzer 11y ago

No of course not. It does mean that this particular pathway is very different in the mouse model, and studies of vitamin C and mice should be taken with an extra grain of salt.

cjhveal 11y ago
In this regard, I think we agree very much! I simply wanted to point out that the specific example that they endogenously synthesize ascorbic acid wasn't a great reason for why this particular trial wouldn't be valid. Be skeptical of any scientific claim made, especially around possible links between animal models and human clinical environment, and even more especially when the systems involved are not highly conserved cross species.

mtgx 11y ago

Isn't it dangerous for a human to take that much in a day? What about for a month every day?

cjhveal 11y ago
Mega-dosing vitamin C is fairly common among alternative medicine practitioners. The medical community recommends an upper limit of 2g per day for adults due to mild laxative effects around that dosage. There's a paucity of trials that experiment with dosages above that level, so long term effects are mostly unknown.
majkinetor 11y ago
Not at all. I experimented 5+ years with it and took on several occasions 100+g per day with regular input between 10-15g per day. The only problem I had after 5 years is slight pain in esophagus immediately after taking C, but it passed after I switched to taking C on full stomach. Note: you MUST use pure AA powder, nothing else. Timing of C is essential - you must do it right, or the effects are minimal (you basically have to simulate the liver ancestral production now disabled in humans). Vitamin C is a miracle thing IMO, especially 4 kids. My daughter was taking 1g since age 1 (now has 5) and she has remarkable health (she is sick once or twice per year for 2-4 days without any complications with being in kindergarten with 30+ kids since age 1, although the non-vitamin-c factors are contributing to this picture quite a bit). Vitamin C is the most effective virus killer in large doses if you time it right. It is poor antibiotic but you have many options in plant world for that.
- mb_72 11y ago
  These are fairly typical anecdotal comments made by people pushing Vitamin C cures / treatment, often in conjunction with mention of 'miracles'. Oblig xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/
  - majkinetor 11y ago
    What can I say, it works for me and few more people I know. But the argument you are giving is quite pointless - vitamin C has no side effects and it is dead cheap so there is no harm in trying it out for several months and deciding on your own if its good or not for you.
    - mb_72 11y ago
      > What can I say, it works for me and few more people I know. You don't know that - it could have been other unknown factors that made the difference. The same claims of 'working' are made for homoeopathy etc. In general 'trying stuff' is a waste of effort, time and money unless there is supporting evidence for efficacy.