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I've often heard conspiracy theorists say that if dentists ever learned of a way to cure cavities more cheaply and without drilling, they'd suppress the informa

by Kluny 11y ago

I've often heard conspiracy theorists say that if dentists ever learned of a way to cure cavities more cheaply and without drilling, they'd suppress the information as it would endanger their business. I think this is insane, but can anyone offer a sound economic argument for why dentists would embrace the new technique instead of cartelling up to suppress it?

tjr 11y ago
Why don't dentists recommend drinking more soda and eating more candy?
- padobson 11y ago
  I don't know, but if you find some, let me know so I can give them my money.
- habitue 11y ago
  Because people don't need any encouraging to do those things. From a dentists point of view there's no scarcity of poor dental decisions, so they don't need to artificially try to create them.
- bigethan 11y ago
  They aren't outwardly evil. Put on a happy face and turn the screws where the customer can't see or control. Like all capitalist companies that want to maximize profit.
- Pyxl101 11y ago
  For the same reason a real estate agent does not try to sell you the first house they show you: their motives would be way too obviously transparent if they did that and people would see through it.
  - Pyxl101 11y ago
    I don't understand the downvotes. I'm not suggesting that dentists actually want to harm peoples' teeth. I'm simply pointing out that dentists recommending sugar and soda is too obviously nonsensical a position for anyone to actually take, regardless of their true position.
- kbutler 11y ago
  I have a dentist friend that says he should install a soda machine, and if you have a cavity free checkup, you get coupons for free refills of soda... "And have a free piece of sticky candy!"
darkerside 11y ago
Because capitalism. Dentists are not a cabal but a loosely affiliated set of individuals. As soon as one local dentist start filling teeth pain-free with great long-lasting results, all the other dentists had better adapt or they will go out of business.
- bigethan 11y ago
  It'd be impossible for a dentist to go rogue if the main lobbying group for the dentists wasn't allowing any new treatments to get government approval. Also, I'd argue that capitalism is what causes the entrenchment of industries that get addicted to their profits and don't care about the customers.
  - avmich 11y ago
    It'd be possible for public to mount enough pressure on government to allow for that. Given a few assumptions, of course - enough information, attentive enough government, enough energy in the society etc.
  - merpnderp 11y ago
    Wouldn't the government approval issue be more of a socialist factor? Would a socialist government, who's dental representatives want to protect their slice of the public pie be more or less powerful than a capitalist leaning government who wants to limit interference in the market? For instance, is the teachers union more or less powerful than the dental lobbyists?
    - bigethan 11y ago
      >Wouldn't the government approval issue be more of a socialist factor? One uses money to manipulate the people in charge of socialist government programs. I'd bet that the dental lobbyists are stronger in their niche than the teachers union is because there's less public knowledge and interest there.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    I'd argue that capitalism is what causes the entrenchment of industries that get addicted to their profits and don't care about the customers. No, this is human nature. People with power and wealth act to protect it. This is true whether they get their power and wealth because they are high-ranking politicans, party officials or bureaucrats, or whether they earned it in the private sector.
mankyd 11y ago
Because this fixes a cavity; it doesn't prevent it. Even with treatments like this, we'll still be going to the dentist. And further, I'll go to a dentist that offers this treatment before I'll go to one that doesn't.
jaredhansen 11y ago
Because "cartelling up" is much, much harder and more rare than people think. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel#Long-term_unsustainability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel#Long-term_unsustainabil...
a3n 11y ago
The researchers say the device can also whiten teeth. So the dentists will be fine.
MaysonL 11y ago
Because patients will flock to the dentists who do embrace it, and others may even sue the ones who don't.
to3m 11y ago
I wonder if quick checkups are any less profitable per unit time than doing fillings. Not much in the way of materials required, and you can get a good throughput, with each visit likely to be of predictable duration. (My teeth are in good shape, and my average dentist visit takes all of 15 minutes: check teeth for basic soundness, scrape off tartar, remove tea stains from upper incisors. Still costs me £55.) There is also orthodontic work.
- noir_lord 11y ago
  Since you used pounds I'm assuming UK, NHS dentists charge £53 for extractions/most work, a check up is less than £20 and mine always include a cleaning/scaling if required. Unless you are strictly private in which case that sounds more sane.
- pageld 11y ago
  "Quick Checkups" are less profitable. However, Scaling and root planing (periodontal treatment) is super profitable which is just a more time intensive version of a checkup. I do know of some dentists that tell their hygienists to not do a good job so they can get the periodontal treatment and charge $400 a quarter instead of $150 every 6 months. Source: Wife was a hygienist before she burned out from contortionist body pain and having to make commission.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    > Source: Wife was a hygienist before she burned out from contortionist body pain and having to make commission. Note to self: find out what dentists make their hygienists work on commission and don't go there.
- kbutler 11y ago
  In the U.S., checkups are primarily done by the (less-expensive) dental assistant doing the X-rays, the (moderately expensive) hygienist doing the cleaning, followed by a quick inspection of mouth and X-rays by the (expensive) dentist. I imagine that the predictability and minimal time use of the dentist would allow it to be quite profitable. However, as teeth become drastically less susceptible to disease, people will feel much less need to have regular dentist visits...
abecedarius 11y ago
That kind of already happened, though it's only suppressed in the sense that no dentist ever hinted to me that nutrition might matter beyond avoiding sugar: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-t...
holman 11y ago
My dad, grandfather, and sister-in-law are all dentists. This was something we'd chat about every now and then, and the answer inevitably came down to "whatever is better for patients is good for me". Sounds a bit like a platitude, but there are so many different treatments and procedures modern dentists do that I think it the profession would generally be fine for quite some time. In a large sense, there'd probably be a transition towards more emphasis on repair and fixes of traumatic injury rather than preventative procedures, but it would likely take awhile before things dramatically change for the profession.

by Kluny 11y ago

tjr 11y ago

Why don't dentists recommend drinking more soda and eating more candy?

padobson 11y ago
I don't know, but if you find some, let me know so I can give them my money.
habitue 11y ago
Because people don't need any encouraging to do those things. From a dentists point of view there's no scarcity of poor dental decisions, so they don't need to artificially try to create them.
bigethan 11y ago
They aren't outwardly evil. Put on a happy face and turn the screws where the customer can't see or control. Like all capitalist companies that want to maximize profit.
Pyxl101 11y ago
For the same reason a real estate agent does not try to sell you the first house they show you: their motives would be way too obviously transparent if they did that and people would see through it.
- Pyxl101 11y ago
  I don't understand the downvotes. I'm not suggesting that dentists actually want to harm peoples' teeth. I'm simply pointing out that dentists recommending sugar and soda is too obviously nonsensical a position for anyone to actually take, regardless of their true position.
kbutler 11y ago
I have a dentist friend that says he should install a soda machine, and if you have a cavity free checkup, you get coupons for free refills of soda... "And have a free piece of sticky candy!"

darkerside 11y ago

Because capitalism. Dentists are not a cabal but a loosely affiliated set of individuals. As soon as one local dentist start filling teeth pain-free with great long-lasting results, all the other dentists had better adapt or they will go out of business.

bigethan 11y ago
It'd be impossible for a dentist to go rogue if the main lobbying group for the dentists wasn't allowing any new treatments to get government approval. Also, I'd argue that capitalism is what causes the entrenchment of industries that get addicted to their profits and don't care about the customers.
- avmich 11y ago
  It'd be possible for public to mount enough pressure on government to allow for that. Given a few assumptions, of course - enough information, attentive enough government, enough energy in the society etc.
- merpnderp 11y ago
  Wouldn't the government approval issue be more of a socialist factor? Would a socialist government, who's dental representatives want to protect their slice of the public pie be more or less powerful than a capitalist leaning government who wants to limit interference in the market? For instance, is the teachers union more or less powerful than the dental lobbyists?
  - bigethan 11y ago
    >Wouldn't the government approval issue be more of a socialist factor? One uses money to manipulate the people in charge of socialist government programs. I'd bet that the dental lobbyists are stronger in their niche than the teachers union is because there's less public knowledge and interest there.
- ams6110 11y ago
  I'd argue that capitalism is what causes the entrenchment of industries that get addicted to their profits and don't care about the customers. No, this is human nature. People with power and wealth act to protect it. This is true whether they get their power and wealth because they are high-ranking politicans, party officials or bureaucrats, or whether they earned it in the private sector.

mankyd 11y ago

Because this fixes a cavity; it doesn't prevent it. Even with treatments like this, we'll still be going to the dentist. And further, I'll go to a dentist that offers this treatment before I'll go to one that doesn't.

jaredhansen 11y ago

Because "cartelling up" is much, much harder and more rare than people think. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel#Long-term_unsustainability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel#Long-term_unsustainabil...

a3n 11y ago

The researchers say the device can also whiten teeth. So the dentists will be fine.

MaysonL 11y ago

Because patients will flock to the dentists who do embrace it, and others may even sue the ones who don't.

to3m 11y ago

I wonder if quick checkups are any less profitable per unit time than doing fillings. Not much in the way of materials required, and you can get a good throughput, with each visit likely to be of predictable duration. (My teeth are in good shape, and my average dentist visit takes all of 15 minutes: check teeth for basic soundness, scrape off tartar, remove tea stains from upper incisors. Still costs me £55.) There is also orthodontic work.

noir_lord 11y ago
Since you used pounds I'm assuming UK, NHS dentists charge £53 for extractions/most work, a check up is less than £20 and mine always include a cleaning/scaling if required. Unless you are strictly private in which case that sounds more sane.
pageld 11y ago
"Quick Checkups" are less profitable. However, Scaling and root planing (periodontal treatment) is super profitable which is just a more time intensive version of a checkup. I do know of some dentists that tell their hygienists to not do a good job so they can get the periodontal treatment and charge $400 a quarter instead of $150 every 6 months. Source: Wife was a hygienist before she burned out from contortionist body pain and having to make commission.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  > Source: Wife was a hygienist before she burned out from contortionist body pain and having to make commission. Note to self: find out what dentists make their hygienists work on commission and don't go there.
kbutler 11y ago
In the U.S., checkups are primarily done by the (less-expensive) dental assistant doing the X-rays, the (moderately expensive) hygienist doing the cleaning, followed by a quick inspection of mouth and X-rays by the (expensive) dentist. I imagine that the predictability and minimal time use of the dentist would allow it to be quite profitable. However, as teeth become drastically less susceptible to disease, people will feel much less need to have regular dentist visits...

abecedarius 11y ago

That kind of already happened, though it's only suppressed in the sense that no dentist ever hinted to me that nutrition might matter beyond avoiding sugar: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-tooth-decay-reversal-diet.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-mellanbys-t...

holman 11y ago

My dad, grandfather, and sister-in-law are all dentists. This was something we'd chat about every now and then, and the answer inevitably came down to "whatever is better for patients is good for me". Sounds a bit like a platitude, but there are so many different treatments and procedures modern dentists do that I think it the profession would generally be fine for quite some time. In a large sense, there'd probably be a transition towards more emphasis on repair and fixes of traumatic injury rather than preventative procedures, but it would likely take awhile before things dramatically change for the profession.