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>I don't think this article ever specifically explains why TPP is bad for Canada. Does any TPP article do more than fearmongering? Its clear there are people w

>I don't think this article ever specifically explains why TPP is bad for Canada. Does any TPP article do more than fearmongering? Its clear there are people who are against low barriers to trade by principle. They believe in strict isolationist protectionism as being economically superior. Historically they've been wrong, but they have an activist voice on the web. Stuff like this should give people pause on how things get popular on the web and who is selling you what message. From a larger perspective, I feel that TV and print media had guys like Neil Postman and Marshall McLuhan, but the web doesn't really have anyone giving a critical message about how untrustworthy and unreliable communication like this is.

Yikes111 11y ago
Are you for real? You imagine there's something good in any of the TP* treaties? It's not fearmongering when it's real hahaha. "Historically they've been wrong" REALLY? your claim for that is what? The only reason we have income taxes, is because of the first world war. It was sold to people as a temporary measure to pay for the war. Before that, government was paid for with import duties. You think people are better off giving up half their income and in some places, more than that? That's just income tax. Add all the other taxes up and it's getting to be a 100%. Those taxes will be going up further as a result of this 'free' trade. The lost duties have to be made up somehow and it's not like anyone is straining to balance a budget. "but they have an activist voice on the web." Accusing someone of doing what you've done, is one of the oldest tricks there is. You see shithead politicians do that everyday. YOU, what you preeching is the commie I'm sorry, 'activist' nonsense. YOU WANT to be impoverished. Because that's what it's the globalization of, poverty. With the collapse in commodities, Canada is considered a third world economy by most investment banks now. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-02/money-flooding-out-of-canada-at-fastest-pace-in-developed-world http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-02/money-floo...
- dang 11y ago
  This comment breaks the HN guidelines. Please read them and, when commenting here, stay civil and substantive: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
Of course, it's the people against convoluted, multipronged trade agreements who are the neo-mercantilists! The Ludwig von Mises Institute are all a bunch of reds!
- chiaro 11y ago
  You do understand what mercantilism is, right? Less free trade is a central part of it.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    And by definition omnibus bills like "free trade agreements" are a central instrument in curtailing it. Micromanagement of every detail is the antithesis of freedom. You don't seem to be well versed in what free trade is.
fweespeech 11y ago
> Does any TPP article do more than fearmongering? Its clear there are people who are against low barriers to trade by principle. Yes. Mises is made of people who are against low trade barriers on principles. /s https://mises.org/library/we-need-actual-free-trade-not-tpp https://mises.org/library/we-need-actual-free-trade-not-tpp > We Need Actual Free Trade, Not the TPP > Nyhan is apparently deeply confused, however, since he equates the Trans Pacific Partnership with “trade liberalization.” In fact, the TPP is not about any type of liberalization, but is about centralizing political power. http://www.zdnet.com/article/nz-it-industry-mobilises-to-fight-tpp-software-patent-threat/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/nz-it-industry-mobilises-to-fig... > "We're an export-driven sector, so we love free trade", Taylor said. "However this can't come at the cost of the future of the technology industry, and that's what it will be if New Zealand's current law banning software patents is traded away in the TPP." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/opinion/paul-krugman-trade-and-trust.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/opinion/paul-krugman-trade... > In any case, the Pacific trade deal isn’t really about trade. Some already low tariffs would come down, but the main thrust of the proposed deal involves strengthening intellectual property rights — things like drug patents and movie copyrights — and changing the way companies and countries settle disputes. And it’s by no means clear that either of those changes is good for America. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/the-mis-selling-of-tpp/?_r=0 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/the-mis-selling-... > William Daley’s pro-TPP op-ed in today’s Times is just awful, on multiple levels. No acknowledgment that the real arguments are not about trade but about intellectual property and dispute settlement; on top of that a crude mercantilist claim that trade liberalization is good because it means more exports; some Dean Baker bait with numbers — $31 billion in trade surplus! All of 0.2 percent of GDP! http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454511/tpp-cost-medicine http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454511/tpp-cost-medicine > So in the United States, there are really protective rules around this: Any maker of a biologic gets 12 years of data exclusivity. The FDA can't approve a similar drug that relies on the original data during this time. ... By contrast, in other countries, there are looser rules — or no rules — around such data exclusivity. Japan offers eight years, for instance. Brunei offers zero. > At the moment, it's up to countries to decide whether things like a small change in a drug molecule should warrant a patent extension. But the final TPP creates patent-related obligations in countries that never had them before, explained Rius Sanjuan. To put it simply, this would directly target a country's ability to define its own patent law and put a higher standard on when generics can become available.
kspaans 11y ago
Funny that you should mention Marshall McLuhan, because the TPP changes to Copyright law in Canada would mean his works don't enter the public domain for another 20 years, which would be a shame. http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/11/official-release-of-tpp-text-confirms-massive-loss-to-canadian-public-domain/ http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/11/official-release-of-tpp-t...

Yikes111 11y ago

Are you for real? You imagine there's something good in any of the TP* treaties? It's not fearmongering when it's real hahaha. "Historically they've been wrong" REALLY? your claim for that is what? The only reason we have income taxes, is because of the first world war. It was sold to people as a temporary measure to pay for the war. Before that, government was paid for with import duties. You think people are better off giving up half their income and in some places, more than that? That's just income tax. Add all the other taxes up and it's getting to be a 100%. Those taxes will be going up further as a result of this 'free' trade. The lost duties have to be made up somehow and it's not like anyone is straining to balance a budget. "but they have an activist voice on the web." Accusing someone of doing what you've done, is one of the oldest tricks there is. You see shithead politicians do that everyday. YOU, what you preeching is the commie I'm sorry, 'activist' nonsense. YOU WANT to be impoverished. Because that's what it's the globalization of, poverty. With the collapse in commodities, Canada is considered a third world economy by most investment banks now. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-02/money-flooding-out-of-canada-at-fastest-pace-in-developed-world http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-02/money-floo...

dang 11y ago
This comment breaks the HN guidelines. Please read them and, when commenting here, stay civil and substantive: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

Of course, it's the people against convoluted, multipronged trade agreements who are the neo-mercantilists! The Ludwig von Mises Institute are all a bunch of reds!

chiaro 11y ago
You do understand what mercantilism is, right? Less free trade is a central part of it.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  And by definition omnibus bills like "free trade agreements" are a central instrument in curtailing it. Micromanagement of every detail is the antithesis of freedom. You don't seem to be well versed in what free trade is.

fweespeech 11y ago

> Does any TPP article do more than fearmongering? Its clear there are people who are against low barriers to trade by principle. Yes. Mises is made of people who are against low trade barriers on principles. /s https://mises.org/library/we-need-actual-free-trade-not-tpp https://mises.org/library/we-need-actual-free-trade-not-tpp > We Need Actual Free Trade, Not the TPP > Nyhan is apparently deeply confused, however, since he equates the Trans Pacific Partnership with “trade liberalization.” In fact, the TPP is not about any type of liberalization, but is about centralizing political power. http://www.zdnet.com/article/nz-it-industry-mobilises-to-fight-tpp-software-patent-threat/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/nz-it-industry-mobilises-to-fig... > "We're an export-driven sector, so we love free trade", Taylor said. "However this can't come at the cost of the future of the technology industry, and that's what it will be if New Zealand's current law banning software patents is traded away in the TPP." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/opinion/paul-krugman-trade-and-trust.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/opinion/paul-krugman-trade... > In any case, the Pacific trade deal isn’t really about trade. Some already low tariffs would come down, but the main thrust of the proposed deal involves strengthening intellectual property rights — things like drug patents and movie copyrights — and changing the way companies and countries settle disputes. And it’s by no means clear that either of those changes is good for America. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/the-mis-selling-of-tpp/?_r=0 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/the-mis-selling-... > William Daley’s pro-TPP op-ed in today’s Times is just awful, on multiple levels. No acknowledgment that the real arguments are not about trade but about intellectual property and dispute settlement; on top of that a crude mercantilist claim that trade liberalization is good because it means more exports; some Dean Baker bait with numbers — $31 billion in trade surplus! All of 0.2 percent of GDP! http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454511/tpp-cost-medicine http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454511/tpp-cost-medicine > So in the United States, there are really protective rules around this: Any maker of a biologic gets 12 years of data exclusivity. The FDA can't approve a similar drug that relies on the original data during this time. ... By contrast, in other countries, there are looser rules — or no rules — around such data exclusivity. Japan offers eight years, for instance. Brunei offers zero. > At the moment, it's up to countries to decide whether things like a small change in a drug molecule should warrant a patent extension. But the final TPP creates patent-related obligations in countries that never had them before, explained Rius Sanjuan. To put it simply, this would directly target a country's ability to define its own patent law and put a higher standard on when generics can become available.

kspaans 11y ago

Funny that you should mention Marshall McLuhan, because the TPP changes to Copyright law in Canada would mean his works don't enter the public domain for another 20 years, which would be a shame. http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/11/official-release-of-tpp-text-confirms-massive-loss-to-canadian-public-domain/ http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/11/official-release-of-tpp-t...