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This applies for jobs outside of technology, but the unfortunate part my household is finding out is that even if you get a name brand institution on your resum

This applies for jobs outside of technology, but the unfortunate part my household is finding out is that even if you get a name brand institution on your resume, moving to an area with very scarce jobs like most areas in the South outside an international airport means your credentials don't matter perhaps as much as your last name because the tier of jobs you're looking for with a solid middle class job is the .1%er jobs of big cities equivalently.

Tenhundfeld 11y ago
Your exclusion of cities containing international airports seems odd to me. You're excluding most major cities. You're basically saying there aren't many solid middle class jobs in the rural areas of the South. I think it's generally true, outside of the South as well, that urban areas have more middle class jobs. I'm not trying to invalidate whatever experience you and your household are having. I'm just saying there are tons of tech jobs in the South. Many Southern cities are in the top 25 cities/metro areas for software jobs, e.g., Austin, TX; the DC suburbs in VA and MD; Jacksonville, FL; Raleigh, NC. And while they typically don't show up on lists, I know first hand that cities like Mobile, AL; Huntsville, AL; Tampa, FL; Richmond, VA; Nashville, TN; Knoxville, TN and Atlanta, GA have healthy tech sectors as well. I find it mildly ridiculous when people act like you can't find a good programming job outside of West Coast / Chicago / Boston / NYC.
- jdhawk 11y ago
  Austin has an international airport...
  - Tenhundfeld 11y ago
    Right, I wasn't saying it didn't. I was saying that it's silly to exclude all of the major cities and then say the South doesn't have good jobs. No matter what region you're talking about, the good tech jobs are in typically in/near cities.
- devonkim 11y ago
  All of those places have international airports except Knoxville, Richmond, Tampa, and Alabama. My point is mostly about having sufficient population density that an international airport is justifiable for the region, and that spurs sufficient mass of high quality information-centric jobs rather than primarily jobs low on the capitalist value chain. To further elaborate and simultaneously move the fence posts (but was part of my snarky intent) is that the tech jobs that are in these places aside from mobile software are almost always ones people on HN overwhelmingly do not want. These jobs are disagreeable from either an ideological perspective (defense, oil) or ambitious career perspective (industry-specific CMS apps, subcontracting support / maintenance on legacy applications, outsourced enterprise J2EE development, IT). To me, the equivalent of "there's tech jobs all over the place in the US" is "there's jobs all over Craigslist, why are you complaining about lack of jobs?" Trust me when I say that most of the jobs I've seen outside areas with strong tech sector presence are likely not very good "tech" jobs. There's absolutely exceptions, but they are oases in the Sahara desert to me.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    I suppose it's hard to argue with you if your point is that their aren't many SV-style mobile/web app companies outside of Silicon Valley. There are, however, a lot of software and other engineering jobs in many southern cities (e.g. Austin, Raleigh) albeit probably fewer than in the Northeast and the West coast.
    - devonkim 11y ago
      There's a number of local companies doing their own regional form of SV companies though that's an increasing trend that could reverse the gold rush to big cities. For example, a local company here is more popular than GrubHub (http://valetgourmet.com http://valetgourmet.com). A lot of smaller municipalities (Asheville is a good example) have a cultural distaste for using services and products from outside the area due to the lack of a strong local economy and becoming potentially corporate colonies, so a lot of these companies are intentionally low market cap because they have more humble concerns than getting big, raising a bunch of funding, and retiring at 30. It's part of why I like it here, but the lack of ambition has a double edged sword resulting in a cap on quality that is typical for most places. What's becoming something a little alarming is that even those of us that want to stay away from big cities are being lured back with pretty insane comp packages / opportunities back in big cities, so brain drain is still an issue while (investment) capital is centered around big cities.
- totalrobe 11y ago
  I would remove the DC metro area from your list - it may be traditionally part of 'the South' geographically, but cost of living is very high and the culture is much more similar to the northeast.

Tenhundfeld 11y ago

Your exclusion of cities containing international airports seems odd to me. You're excluding most major cities. You're basically saying there aren't many solid middle class jobs in the rural areas of the South. I think it's generally true, outside of the South as well, that urban areas have more middle class jobs. I'm not trying to invalidate whatever experience you and your household are having. I'm just saying there are tons of tech jobs in the South. Many Southern cities are in the top 25 cities/metro areas for software jobs, e.g., Austin, TX; the DC suburbs in VA and MD; Jacksonville, FL; Raleigh, NC. And while they typically don't show up on lists, I know first hand that cities like Mobile, AL; Huntsville, AL; Tampa, FL; Richmond, VA; Nashville, TN; Knoxville, TN and Atlanta, GA have healthy tech sectors as well. I find it mildly ridiculous when people act like you can't find a good programming job outside of West Coast / Chicago / Boston / NYC.

jdhawk 11y ago
Austin has an international airport...
- Tenhundfeld 11y ago
  Right, I wasn't saying it didn't. I was saying that it's silly to exclude all of the major cities and then say the South doesn't have good jobs. No matter what region you're talking about, the good tech jobs are in typically in/near cities.
devonkim 11y ago
All of those places have international airports except Knoxville, Richmond, Tampa, and Alabama. My point is mostly about having sufficient population density that an international airport is justifiable for the region, and that spurs sufficient mass of high quality information-centric jobs rather than primarily jobs low on the capitalist value chain. To further elaborate and simultaneously move the fence posts (but was part of my snarky intent) is that the tech jobs that are in these places aside from mobile software are almost always ones people on HN overwhelmingly do not want. These jobs are disagreeable from either an ideological perspective (defense, oil) or ambitious career perspective (industry-specific CMS apps, subcontracting support / maintenance on legacy applications, outsourced enterprise J2EE development, IT). To me, the equivalent of "there's tech jobs all over the place in the US" is "there's jobs all over Craigslist, why are you complaining about lack of jobs?" Trust me when I say that most of the jobs I've seen outside areas with strong tech sector presence are likely not very good "tech" jobs. There's absolutely exceptions, but they are oases in the Sahara desert to me.
- ghaff 11y ago
  I suppose it's hard to argue with you if your point is that their aren't many SV-style mobile/web app companies outside of Silicon Valley. There are, however, a lot of software and other engineering jobs in many southern cities (e.g. Austin, Raleigh) albeit probably fewer than in the Northeast and the West coast.
  - devonkim 11y ago
    There's a number of local companies doing their own regional form of SV companies though that's an increasing trend that could reverse the gold rush to big cities. For example, a local company here is more popular than GrubHub (http://valetgourmet.com http://valetgourmet.com). A lot of smaller municipalities (Asheville is a good example) have a cultural distaste for using services and products from outside the area due to the lack of a strong local economy and becoming potentially corporate colonies, so a lot of these companies are intentionally low market cap because they have more humble concerns than getting big, raising a bunch of funding, and retiring at 30. It's part of why I like it here, but the lack of ambition has a double edged sword resulting in a cap on quality that is typical for most places. What's becoming something a little alarming is that even those of us that want to stay away from big cities are being lured back with pretty insane comp packages / opportunities back in big cities, so brain drain is still an issue while (investment) capital is centered around big cities.
totalrobe 11y ago
I would remove the DC metro area from your list - it may be traditionally part of 'the South' geographically, but cost of living is very high and the culture is much more similar to the northeast.