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> All international agreements are generally discussed in secrecy. People keep repeating this line with no evidence. I've been around for a number of internati

> All international agreements are generally discussed in secrecy. People keep repeating this line with no evidence. I've been around for a number of international treaties and this is the first one I recall where the #1 issue is how secretive and un-democratic the process is. Of course there are always backchannel discussions but with the TPP there has be little indication that ANY of the initiatives are actually being driven by the needs of the electorate. When my elected official couldn't even see a copy for years (even in secret) and then was only able to when it was basically an all-or-nothing done deal about to signed something is very, very wrong.

spikels 11y ago
I'm not sure which treaties you are referring to but certainly all trade agreements have always been negotiated in secret. And people who were against them have always complained.[1] Are you against climate agreements because they was mostly negotiated in secret?[2] How about US-USSR nuclear disarmament treaties (SALT I, SALT II, ABM)? The Iran nuclear talks?[3] Do you not understand why they need to be negotiated in public? I guess you don't because you didn't even know they were always negotiated in secret. [1] https://blog.nader.org/1994/12/26/naftagatt-deals-shrouded-in-secrecy/ https://blog.nader.org/1994/12/26/naftagatt-deals-shrouded-i... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/12/how-us-china-climate-deal-was-done-secret-talks-personal-letter http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/12/how-us-ch... [3] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/01/us-iran-nuclear-burns-idUSBREA000AD20140101 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/01/us-iran-nuclear-bu...
- jayvanguard 11y ago
  Despite your single article, I followed NAFTA and secrecy was not the dominant talking point. Specifics about industries affected were the focal point. Elected officials were actually involved. Your other two examples are from last year and involve the same president driving TPP.

spikels 11y ago

I'm not sure which treaties you are referring to but certainly all trade agreements have always been negotiated in secret. And people who were against them have always complained.[1] Are you against climate agreements because they was mostly negotiated in secret?[2] How about US-USSR nuclear disarmament treaties (SALT I, SALT II, ABM)? The Iran nuclear talks?[3] Do you not understand why they need to be negotiated in public? I guess you don't because you didn't even know they were always negotiated in secret. [1] https://blog.nader.org/1994/12/26/naftagatt-deals-shrouded-in-secrecy/ https://blog.nader.org/1994/12/26/naftagatt-deals-shrouded-i... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/12/how-us-china-climate-deal-was-done-secret-talks-personal-letter http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/12/how-us-ch... [3] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/01/us-iran-nuclear-burns-idUSBREA000AD20140101 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/01/us-iran-nuclear-bu...

jayvanguard 11y ago
Despite your single article, I followed NAFTA and secrecy was not the dominant talking point. Specifics about industries affected were the focal point. Elected officials were actually involved. Your other two examples are from last year and involve the same president driving TPP.