4 ms·

Corruption level is high in Russia, you're right here. But totalitarian government? I'm afraid, you drink too much someone else's Kool-aid. And as for the GDP f

Corruption level is high in Russia, you're right here. But totalitarian government? I'm afraid, you drink too much someone else's Kool-aid. And as for the GDP fall. Could you please provide some references? Because mine show that it's not even close to what you've written [1] [2]. I'd like to read more about generations in the army and the aged military, too. Lack of any references but very big conclusions. That's exactly how pro-Russian trolls' messages look like. [1]: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth [2]: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jonatanheyman 11y ago
Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture, than "corruption level is high".
- kushti 11y ago
  And again, without a single reference? Is it a joke?
  - jonatanheyman 11y ago
    The amount of information about the mentioned issues, available on the web is enormous. Anyone who want to read up on it can just use a search engine. I believe most users should be able to evaluate the credibility of the sources found themselves and I don't think me cherry-picking a few articles would add much credibility to the comment.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    General discussion typically does not try to list references for things that are obvious. But of course it can be done. Limiting free speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia "the Russian government exerts control over civil society through selective implementation of the law, restriction and censure." "In 2013 Russia ranked 148th out of 179 countries in the Press Freedom Index from Reporters Without Borders." Banning political opposition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Russia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Russia) "On 28 April 2015 the party was deprived of registration." Arresting dissidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny Persecuting people for their sexuality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law Invading neighbour sovereign states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Russian_milita... An we could add to the list. But it would be pointless, wouldn't it? Since we know that the first step is "you don't have any references", and the next step is "here's some mud flying at you and your references".
- alendit 11y ago
  > Limiting free speech This accusation is very vague and it could mean anything. It's surely more limited than, say, in Sweden. It way less limited than in Saudi Arabia. > banning political opposition Russian parliament consists of 4 parties, 3 of those are oppositional. I'm sure there is a number of banned NGOs, but totalitarian countries usually don't have this kind of political plurality. > arresting dissidents Notice they don't arrest people for being a political dissident? Khodorkovsky was brought up on tax evasion charges (which he undoubtedly committed). Pussy Riot was charged with hooliganism (which they undoubtedly committed). Were the trials politically motivated? Sure! Is it unique to totalitarian states that people who oppose the establishment come under higher scrutiny? Please... > persecuting people for their sexuality Now we are venturing into the cool-aid area. Modern Russia never prosecuted anyone for their sexuality. Homosexuality means attraction to the same sex and people are free to act on their attraction in Russia. There are a number of openly gay public figures. Russia has laws protecting LGBT minorities from discrimination. I would venture further - Russian government's policy right now is as progressive on LGBT rights as possible in Russia. The populace is hugely homophobic, ranging from 'being gay is a disease' to 'gay must be stoned'. It's the same in most of the former Soviet republics - even in the Lithuania over 80% of people consider homosexuality a perversion [1]. And by misrepresenting the fact about the state of the LGBT community in Russia the Western media only make Putin's life easier, since he can present it as a 'them-versus-us' issue internally. Compare [2] > invading neighbour sovereign states Is the emphasis here on 'neighbour'? Because if invading other countries is a sign of totalitarianism than the list of totalitarian countries will have some very surprising names on it. > I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture Which is your good right. I just don't see enough facts to support your opinion that Russia is a ' state [which] holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible.' [3] [1] http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/apklausa-daugiau-nei-puse-gyventoju-nepritaria-geju-eitynems-vilniuje.d?id=22822011 http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/apklausa-daugiau-ne... (use google translate) [2] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/05/russia-anti-gay-law-criticism-playing-into-putin-hands http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/05/russia-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
  - 11y ago
- ionised 11y ago
  > Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I'm no fan of Russia, but many of these things you mentioned could be applied to the US and UK too.
  - jonatanheyman 11y ago
    Sure, neither totalitarianism nor democracy are binary things, and there are no razor-sharp definitions. I'm sure you can find examples of those things in many countries that are generally considered "democratic". However, in Putin's Russia this is common practice and happens on a regular basis (with the exceptions of invading other sovereign states I guess, which has only happened a couple of times), which is why I don't think it's controversial to call Russia "totalitarian".
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
    Maybe I missed out on the news about the US and UK, so please fill me in. What free speech has been limited? What political opposition has been banned? Which dissidents have been arrested? Who has been persecuted for their sexuality? Which neighboring countries have been invaded?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jonatanheyman 11y ago

Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture, than "corruption level is high".

kushti 11y ago
And again, without a single reference? Is it a joke?
- jonatanheyman 11y ago
  The amount of information about the mentioned issues, available on the web is enormous. Anyone who want to read up on it can just use a search engine. I believe most users should be able to evaluate the credibility of the sources found themselves and I don't think me cherry-picking a few articles would add much credibility to the comment.
- ptaipale 11y ago
  General discussion typically does not try to list references for things that are obvious. But of course it can be done. Limiting free speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia "the Russian government exerts control over civil society through selective implementation of the law, restriction and censure." "In 2013 Russia ranked 148th out of 179 countries in the Press Freedom Index from Reporters Without Borders." Banning political opposition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Russia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Russia) "On 28 April 2015 the party was deprived of registration." Arresting dissidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny Persecuting people for their sexuality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law Invading neighbour sovereign states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Russian_milita... An we could add to the list. But it would be pointless, wouldn't it? Since we know that the first step is "you don't have any references", and the next step is "here's some mud flying at you and your references".
alendit 11y ago
> Limiting free speech This accusation is very vague and it could mean anything. It's surely more limited than, say, in Sweden. It way less limited than in Saudi Arabia. > banning political opposition Russian parliament consists of 4 parties, 3 of those are oppositional. I'm sure there is a number of banned NGOs, but totalitarian countries usually don't have this kind of political plurality. > arresting dissidents Notice they don't arrest people for being a political dissident? Khodorkovsky was brought up on tax evasion charges (which he undoubtedly committed). Pussy Riot was charged with hooliganism (which they undoubtedly committed). Were the trials politically motivated? Sure! Is it unique to totalitarian states that people who oppose the establishment come under higher scrutiny? Please... > persecuting people for their sexuality Now we are venturing into the cool-aid area. Modern Russia never prosecuted anyone for their sexuality. Homosexuality means attraction to the same sex and people are free to act on their attraction in Russia. There are a number of openly gay public figures. Russia has laws protecting LGBT minorities from discrimination. I would venture further - Russian government's policy right now is as progressive on LGBT rights as possible in Russia. The populace is hugely homophobic, ranging from 'being gay is a disease' to 'gay must be stoned'. It's the same in most of the former Soviet republics - even in the Lithuania over 80% of people consider homosexuality a perversion [1]. And by misrepresenting the fact about the state of the LGBT community in Russia the Western media only make Putin's life easier, since he can present it as a 'them-versus-us' issue internally. Compare [2] > invading neighbour sovereign states Is the emphasis here on 'neighbour'? Because if invading other countries is a sign of totalitarianism than the list of totalitarian countries will have some very surprising names on it. > I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture Which is your good right. I just don't see enough facts to support your opinion that Russia is a ' state [which] holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible.' [3] [1] http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/apklausa-daugiau-nei-puse-gyventoju-nepritaria-geju-eitynems-vilniuje.d?id=22822011 http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/apklausa-daugiau-ne... (use google translate) [2] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/05/russia-anti-gay-law-criticism-playing-into-putin-hands http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/05/russia-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
- 11y ago
ionised 11y ago
> Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I'm no fan of Russia, but many of these things you mentioned could be applied to the US and UK too.
- jonatanheyman 11y ago
  Sure, neither totalitarianism nor democracy are binary things, and there are no razor-sharp definitions. I'm sure you can find examples of those things in many countries that are generally considered "democratic". However, in Putin's Russia this is common practice and happens on a regular basis (with the exceptions of invading other sovereign states I guess, which has only happened a couple of times), which is why I don't think it's controversial to call Russia "totalitarian".
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  Maybe I missed out on the news about the US and UK, so please fill me in. What free speech has been limited? What political opposition has been banned? Which dissidents have been arrested? Who has been persecuted for their sexuality? Which neighboring countries have been invaded?