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> The TensorFlow Python API requires Python 2.7 The whole scientific Python stack is available for Python 3. This seems like a somewhat backwards thing to do -

> The TensorFlow Python API requires Python 2.7 The whole scientific Python stack is available for Python 3. This seems like a somewhat backwards thing to do -- or perhaps the requirement is intended to mean at least 2.7? Edit: added context Edited again: More careful wording

jdiez17 11y ago
It's open source, so feel free to port it to Python 3.
vrv 11y ago
We're looking to support Python 3 -- there are a few changes we are aware of that are required, and we welcome contributions to help! Tracking here: https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/1 https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/1
- Schiphol 11y ago
  Thanks for a constructive reply to a (well-meaning, but) not very nice comment! Congrats on the library, which looks awesome.
  - witty_username 11y ago
    Criticism is considered "not very nice"? Your initial comment wasn't impolite or anything.
- cdnsteve 11y ago
  Python 3 is very much needed! <3 because it's issue #1 :)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- sandGorgon 11y ago
  is this compatible with pypy (or plan to be). Pypy is such an awesome project, done on such a small budget that it needs some well deserved love !
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
kragen 11y ago
This "backwards" meme doesn't make any sense. Python 2 and Python 3 are different languages that happen to share the same name, a lot of syntax, and near-source compatibility, but they've been developed concurrently for ten years now. It's kind of like C and C++. If the current Python 2 team (which is part of the Python Software Foundation) abandons it, probably somebody else will take over maintenance, because it seems unlikely that it will fall out of use. If the Python Software Foundation drops the ball, someone else will pick it up.
- nonelement 11y ago
  Let me start by saying I understand what you're saying. I understand why what you're saying is true. However, many people see (and consequently think) this: "Short version: Python 2.x is legacy, Python 3.x is the present and future of the language" ... which was lifted from https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3. It follows that some people would think something along the lines of "...so this library was built for legacy Python?"
- asdfologist 11y ago
  The Python Software Foundation has stated explicitly that Python 2.7 will EOL in 2020...
  - vegabook 11y ago
    ...but the science guys have been offered zero incentive to move, this "end of life" argument has been worked to death without success, and so it's perhaps time to shift focus to the science community's real needs (ie: GPU).
    - Nrpf 11y ago
      Check out Dynd.
- 1ris 11y ago
  Python 2 is dead.
vegabook 11y ago
I am really excited about this library. Tensors are the future; matrices are going to look so old in a few years. In fairness, Theano already knew that. I cannot wait to dig into this and am very relieved that Google's best are still using Python for this endeavour...but...using Python 2.7. I have just recently been persuaded by the community that 3.5 is cost free, and here I have this enormous counterexample. For the science guys, clearly, the message is not getting through, and I'm not surprised: 3.x offers them nothing. Hence they're blissfully continuing with 2.7. So I guess I'll have to run two Pythons on my system. Not the ideal situation. Now if Python 3.(x > 5) would give us native GPU, which might require putting (a GPU-enabled) Numpy into the standard library...as opposed to, say, spending 2 years re-inventing Tornado....
- pathsjs 11y ago
  > Tensors are the future; matrices are going to look so old in a few years. I am honestly curious about this point of view. Is there any example where actual multidimensional tensor have any relevance? What I mostly see around is just standard linear algebra operations on matrices and vectors lifted to higher-dimensional tensors point-wise (for instance applying a certain operation to all 2-dimensional subtensors of a given tensor). I never saw the need for modeling matrices in terms of tensors - the latter seem just more complex to use and usually tensor operations (like symmetrization, antisymmetrization, wedge products...) are not even available in libraries (And by the way, both matrices and tensors are now more than one century old...)
  - vegabook 11y ago
    In my domain (finance) correlations between vectors are unstable but (maybe) dependent on cross-sectional relationships in the problem space. Some of the mathematics behind elastic body deformation (car tyres in in mechanical engineering, fluid dynamics in weather forecasting) have high applicability. Tensors are required. It's true that tensors are hard to reason about - they overclock my brain most of the time - but there is no doubt that, just like moving from scalars to vectors massively increases your real-world modelling power, so does the natural extrapolation to matrices, and from there, tensors.
pacala 11y ago
It has a C++ API, so there is no lock-in to Python, either 2.7 or 3.x.
- gbrown 11y ago
  It looks like the C++ API is for executing graphs only, which is kind of odd.

jdiez17 11y ago

It's open source, so feel free to port it to Python 3.

vrv 11y ago

We're looking to support Python 3 -- there are a few changes we are aware of that are required, and we welcome contributions to help! Tracking here: https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/1 https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/1

Schiphol 11y ago
Thanks for a constructive reply to a (well-meaning, but) not very nice comment! Congrats on the library, which looks awesome.
- witty_username 11y ago
  Criticism is considered "not very nice"? Your initial comment wasn't impolite or anything.
cdnsteve 11y ago
Python 3 is very much needed! <3 because it's issue #1 :)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
sandGorgon 11y ago
is this compatible with pypy (or plan to be). Pypy is such an awesome project, done on such a small budget that it needs some well deserved love !

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

kragen 11y ago

This "backwards" meme doesn't make any sense. Python 2 and Python 3 are different languages that happen to share the same name, a lot of syntax, and near-source compatibility, but they've been developed concurrently for ten years now. It's kind of like C and C++. If the current Python 2 team (which is part of the Python Software Foundation) abandons it, probably somebody else will take over maintenance, because it seems unlikely that it will fall out of use. If the Python Software Foundation drops the ball, someone else will pick it up.

nonelement 11y ago
Let me start by saying I understand what you're saying. I understand why what you're saying is true. However, many people see (and consequently think) this: "Short version: Python 2.x is legacy, Python 3.x is the present and future of the language" ... which was lifted from https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3. It follows that some people would think something along the lines of "...so this library was built for legacy Python?"
asdfologist 11y ago
The Python Software Foundation has stated explicitly that Python 2.7 will EOL in 2020...
- vegabook 11y ago
  ...but the science guys have been offered zero incentive to move, this "end of life" argument has been worked to death without success, and so it's perhaps time to shift focus to the science community's real needs (ie: GPU).
  - Nrpf 11y ago
    Check out Dynd.
1ris 11y ago
Python 2 is dead.

vegabook 11y ago

I am really excited about this library. Tensors are the future; matrices are going to look so old in a few years. In fairness, Theano already knew that. I cannot wait to dig into this and am very relieved that Google's best are still using Python for this endeavour...but...using Python 2.7. I have just recently been persuaded by the community that 3.5 is cost free, and here I have this enormous counterexample. For the science guys, clearly, the message is not getting through, and I'm not surprised: 3.x offers them nothing. Hence they're blissfully continuing with 2.7. So I guess I'll have to run two Pythons on my system. Not the ideal situation. Now if Python 3.(x > 5) would give us native GPU, which might require putting (a GPU-enabled) Numpy into the standard library...as opposed to, say, spending 2 years re-inventing Tornado....

pathsjs 11y ago
> Tensors are the future; matrices are going to look so old in a few years. I am honestly curious about this point of view. Is there any example where actual multidimensional tensor have any relevance? What I mostly see around is just standard linear algebra operations on matrices and vectors lifted to higher-dimensional tensors point-wise (for instance applying a certain operation to all 2-dimensional subtensors of a given tensor). I never saw the need for modeling matrices in terms of tensors - the latter seem just more complex to use and usually tensor operations (like symmetrization, antisymmetrization, wedge products...) are not even available in libraries (And by the way, both matrices and tensors are now more than one century old...)
- vegabook 11y ago
  In my domain (finance) correlations between vectors are unstable but (maybe) dependent on cross-sectional relationships in the problem space. Some of the mathematics behind elastic body deformation (car tyres in in mechanical engineering, fluid dynamics in weather forecasting) have high applicability. Tensors are required. It's true that tensors are hard to reason about - they overclock my brain most of the time - but there is no doubt that, just like moving from scalars to vectors massively increases your real-world modelling power, so does the natural extrapolation to matrices, and from there, tensors.

pacala 11y ago

It has a C++ API, so there is no lock-in to Python, either 2.7 or 3.x.

gbrown 11y ago
It looks like the C++ API is for executing graphs only, which is kind of odd.