7 ms·

You're missing the point. Airbnb does not assume any responsibility when it comes to inspecting the "soundness" of a listed unit, including any means of evaluat

You're missing the point. Airbnb does not assume any responsibility when it comes to inspecting the "soundness" of a listed unit, including any means of evaluating very basic things like working fire alarms, interior mold, bed bugs, etc. I agree that this was something of a freak accident, but that doesn't invalidate the central argument that Airbnb has no real way to ensure even the most basic level of safety of its guests.

bmmayer1 11y ago
Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.
- jimjimjam 11y ago
  So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.
  - jzwinck 11y ago
    Lots of people travel to places outside the US where none of these things can be taken for granted. I think most of them are sane humans. In 2013 two people died in a Best Western hotel (in the US) due to an improperly and illegally installed water heater. Seven weeks after that, one more person was killed in the exact same way, in the very same room. [1] Are you sure conventional hotels "ensure" safety? [1] http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/special-reports/nc-medical-examiners/article9093794.html http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/special-reports/nc-med...
    - jimjimjam 11y ago
      If you really believe the average Airbnb listing is safer than the average hotel room...then you are certainly not a sane human being. But I too would love to see some objective stats from Airbnb on the number and nature of inbound tickets related to serious safety issues from guests. I doubt we will ever see anything like it.
      - arg-summarizer 11y ago
        1. I disagree with you, but will provide no argument. 2. I believe that staying in a suite posted on Airbnb is riskier than staying in a hotel room, but again will provide no argument.
  - BurningFrog 11y ago
    I have never heard or expected that hotels are especially safe.
    - empressplay 11y ago
      If the argument is that _everything_ is inherently caveat emptor and that in many jurisdictions there are no / inefficient regulations and yet people seem to get along "fine" then why regulate anything at all? Open slather! Everything's "at your own risk". If so, we should all get used to conducting our own safety tests on everything we buy and everywhere we stay? Although, that would be pretty damn inconvenient, wouldn't it? Day-in, day-out, inspecting everywhere we stay, every vehicle we ride in, all the food we eat... and the restaurants we eat them in... Maybe there's a solution. Perhaps we could hire people to do those inspections for us, and since those inspections would inform everyone, we can communally pay for it with taxes? These people would certify whether something was safe, and ensure everything that was for sale / rent was certified to meet some minimum standard (because of course, otherwise some unscrupulous people might be inclined to lie about being certified.) Problem solved! I'm a genius. Oh, wait a minute...
      - voltagex_ 11y ago
        I can't work out if the libertarians here are against regulations entirely or just against the ones that affect profits.
  - asuffield 11y ago
    I think the primary answer to your question is "because that's exactly the same as the situation in their own home where they live for most of the year". Is your home inspected and polished to the level of a hotel? If not, why is your concern the one week you spend in a flat that airbnb is connected with?
    - gozo 11y ago
      Because you are at an information disadvantage. I know if my floor is slippery, the smoke detector has a battery in it, if there has been a burning smell from the fridge or the fuses have been tripping.
rdancer 11y ago
> freak accident No, it wasn't. What is more likely: that the tree became structurally unsound overnight, or that it had been like that for a long time, and an inspection had ever been carried out?
- function_seven 11y ago
  Way more likely that no inspection has ever been carried out. But the freak-nature of this accident still stands. 100,000 people could go find their nearest (un-inspected) tire swing right now and have at it. Maybe 500 would break at that moment. 450 of those would end up in a slight bruise on the ass, another 49 with a broken bone, and one poor soul would die from it.
- m0llusk 11y ago
  Limb dropping is not well understood and can happen at any time. There is no inspection that can predict limb drop. No tree rope swing can be assured as safe.
  - runamok 11y ago
    This is the core fact. Assume airbnb has to go inspect a property before any use by a customer. The tire swing passes. Do they come back once a month/year to re-verify the property is safe? Do they say "Once a man was killed by a tire swing so all tire swings must be removed or using one is not covered by insurance". The 2nd scenario is far more likely. I too feel sorry for the author but the world is not a perfectly safe place. If anything I think it has become SO safe in many 1st world countries that we are incredibly offended and angered by the rare chance death that occurs from incidents like this and we are searching for someone to blame because then it makes it seem preventable.
dorfsmay 11y ago
How is that different than a tourist office providing you with addresses for nearby bed-and-breakfasts?
- geebee 11y ago
  My guess is that the bed and breakfasts are permitted, licensed and subject to inspection. Here's a link from a quick google search: http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/index/drm_index/eh_index/ehd_programs/housing.aspx http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/index/drm_index/eh_index/ehd_prog... "Permits are required to operate organized camps, hotels, motels, boarding homes, and bed & breakfast establishments in both the County and the cities. The purpose is to administer provisions of the State Housing Law and Health & Safety Code pertaining to the maintenance, sanitation, ventilation, and use or occupancy of residential rental facilities. Inspections are made on an annual basis. An application for a Permit to Operate is to be filed with the EHD along with the appropriate fee." I don't think it's unreasonable to insist on a difference standard for inspection and compliance once a home is converted into a commercial enterprise.
  - dorfsmay 11y ago
    I agree, but hadn't realised B&B were regulated.
- prostoalex 11y ago
  The non-air bed-and-breakfast industry is quoted in the article: "Had the hosts of the Texas property opted to become part of a community of more traditional B&Bs, they would have encountered a cumbersome but rigorous process, according to the Texas Bed and Breakfast Association’s executive director Connie Hall. “For new members, they are inspected with an overnight stay, and then every two years, our properties are inspected,” she says, covering everything from cleanliness to decor, and ensuring that individual rooms have a deadbolt, smoke detectors are functioning, and landscaping seems safe. “As far as the safety stuff, it’s mandatory for our members that they meet all these criteria,” adds Hall."

bmmayer1 11y ago

Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.

jimjimjam 11y ago
So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.
- jzwinck 11y ago
  Lots of people travel to places outside the US where none of these things can be taken for granted. I think most of them are sane humans. In 2013 two people died in a Best Western hotel (in the US) due to an improperly and illegally installed water heater. Seven weeks after that, one more person was killed in the exact same way, in the very same room. [1] Are you sure conventional hotels "ensure" safety? [1] http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/special-reports/nc-medical-examiners/article9093794.html http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/special-reports/nc-med...
  - jimjimjam 11y ago
    If you really believe the average Airbnb listing is safer than the average hotel room...then you are certainly not a sane human being. But I too would love to see some objective stats from Airbnb on the number and nature of inbound tickets related to serious safety issues from guests. I doubt we will ever see anything like it.
    - arg-summarizer 11y ago
      1. I disagree with you, but will provide no argument. 2. I believe that staying in a suite posted on Airbnb is riskier than staying in a hotel room, but again will provide no argument.
- BurningFrog 11y ago
  I have never heard or expected that hotels are especially safe.
  - empressplay 11y ago
    If the argument is that _everything_ is inherently caveat emptor and that in many jurisdictions there are no / inefficient regulations and yet people seem to get along "fine" then why regulate anything at all? Open slather! Everything's "at your own risk". If so, we should all get used to conducting our own safety tests on everything we buy and everywhere we stay? Although, that would be pretty damn inconvenient, wouldn't it? Day-in, day-out, inspecting everywhere we stay, every vehicle we ride in, all the food we eat... and the restaurants we eat them in... Maybe there's a solution. Perhaps we could hire people to do those inspections for us, and since those inspections would inform everyone, we can communally pay for it with taxes? These people would certify whether something was safe, and ensure everything that was for sale / rent was certified to meet some minimum standard (because of course, otherwise some unscrupulous people might be inclined to lie about being certified.) Problem solved! I'm a genius. Oh, wait a minute...
    - voltagex_ 11y ago
      I can't work out if the libertarians here are against regulations entirely or just against the ones that affect profits.
- asuffield 11y ago
  I think the primary answer to your question is "because that's exactly the same as the situation in their own home where they live for most of the year". Is your home inspected and polished to the level of a hotel? If not, why is your concern the one week you spend in a flat that airbnb is connected with?
  - gozo 11y ago
    Because you are at an information disadvantage. I know if my floor is slippery, the smoke detector has a battery in it, if there has been a burning smell from the fridge or the fuses have been tripping.

rdancer 11y ago

> freak accident No, it wasn't. What is more likely: that the tree became structurally unsound overnight, or that it had been like that for a long time, and an inspection had ever been carried out?

function_seven 11y ago
Way more likely that no inspection has ever been carried out. But the freak-nature of this accident still stands. 100,000 people could go find their nearest (un-inspected) tire swing right now and have at it. Maybe 500 would break at that moment. 450 of those would end up in a slight bruise on the ass, another 49 with a broken bone, and one poor soul would die from it.
m0llusk 11y ago
Limb dropping is not well understood and can happen at any time. There is no inspection that can predict limb drop. No tree rope swing can be assured as safe.
- runamok 11y ago
  This is the core fact. Assume airbnb has to go inspect a property before any use by a customer. The tire swing passes. Do they come back once a month/year to re-verify the property is safe? Do they say "Once a man was killed by a tire swing so all tire swings must be removed or using one is not covered by insurance". The 2nd scenario is far more likely. I too feel sorry for the author but the world is not a perfectly safe place. If anything I think it has become SO safe in many 1st world countries that we are incredibly offended and angered by the rare chance death that occurs from incidents like this and we are searching for someone to blame because then it makes it seem preventable.

dorfsmay 11y ago

How is that different than a tourist office providing you with addresses for nearby bed-and-breakfasts?

geebee 11y ago
My guess is that the bed and breakfasts are permitted, licensed and subject to inspection. Here's a link from a quick google search: http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/index/drm_index/eh_index/ehd_programs/housing.aspx http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/index/drm_index/eh_index/ehd_prog... "Permits are required to operate organized camps, hotels, motels, boarding homes, and bed & breakfast establishments in both the County and the cities. The purpose is to administer provisions of the State Housing Law and Health & Safety Code pertaining to the maintenance, sanitation, ventilation, and use or occupancy of residential rental facilities. Inspections are made on an annual basis. An application for a Permit to Operate is to be filed with the EHD along with the appropriate fee." I don't think it's unreasonable to insist on a difference standard for inspection and compliance once a home is converted into a commercial enterprise.
- dorfsmay 11y ago
  I agree, but hadn't realised B&B were regulated.
prostoalex 11y ago
The non-air bed-and-breakfast industry is quoted in the article: "Had the hosts of the Texas property opted to become part of a community of more traditional B&Bs, they would have encountered a cumbersome but rigorous process, according to the Texas Bed and Breakfast Association’s executive director Connie Hall. “For new members, they are inspected with an overnight stay, and then every two years, our properties are inspected,” she says, covering everything from cleanliness to decor, and ensuring that individual rooms have a deadbolt, smoke detectors are functioning, and landscaping seems safe. “As far as the safety stuff, it’s mandatory for our members that they meet all these criteria,” adds Hall."