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This study seems to confuse American political parties with philosophy... For example banning guns is similar philosophically to banning drugs (the state knows

by fleitz 11y ago

This study seems to confuse American political parties with philosophy... For example banning guns is similar philosophically to banning drugs (the state knows better than the individual) yet in American politics one of these is a liberal value and one a conservative values.

PeterWhittaker 11y ago
As a non-American (me, not you, I assume you are an American, given your assertion), I suggest that conservatism and liberalism as concepts re what can be done about socially undesirable behaviour have far broader applicability. Conservatives of many stripes in many countries believe people are fixed in their roles and likely place in society (cf British tories, e.g.) while liberals, generally, believe people can be mobile, if given just and equitable access to advancement. This simple (and simplistic, to be fair) characterization is at the heart of the original article, that liberals enter the field and conservatives don't because of what each believes can be done to affect outcomes.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Worth noting that there really haven't been many old "Tories" in the Conservative party for a long time - they are about as rare as socialists in the Labour party. The Conservatives (and New Labour) became "liberals" years ago while nobody really knews (or cares) what the Lib-Dems think.
  - PeterWhittaker 11y ago
    True. I should have specified that I meant "Tory" in the early 18th C sense.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
> For example banning guns is similar philosophically to banning drugs If we consider one angle exclusively, yes, but it's more nuanced than a single angle.
AReallyGoodName 11y ago
It should be pointed out that 'banning guns' is a loaded phrase when talking about gun laws. Here in Australia gun laws removed stigma about gun ownership and we proudly have more guns than ever http://louderwithcrowder.com/australian-gun-ownership-rises-gun-crime-remains-low-america-still-at-fault/ http://louderwithcrowder.com/australian-gun-ownership-rises-... (linking to a pro gun blog so you can laugh at how they try to claim more guns in law abiding hands as a failure of gun control laws). I suspect this kind of thing is why gun laws are the way they are in America. Whereas I see it as a nuanced debate akin to driving regulations Americans seem to view it as 'banning guns' vs 'not banning guns'.

by fleitz 11y ago

PeterWhittaker 11y ago

As a non-American (me, not you, I assume you are an American, given your assertion), I suggest that conservatism and liberalism as concepts re what can be done about socially undesirable behaviour have far broader applicability. Conservatives of many stripes in many countries believe people are fixed in their roles and likely place in society (cf British tories, e.g.) while liberals, generally, believe people can be mobile, if given just and equitable access to advancement. This simple (and simplistic, to be fair) characterization is at the heart of the original article, that liberals enter the field and conservatives don't because of what each believes can be done to affect outcomes.

arethuza 11y ago
Worth noting that there really haven't been many old "Tories" in the Conservative party for a long time - they are about as rare as socialists in the Labour party. The Conservatives (and New Labour) became "liberals" years ago while nobody really knews (or cares) what the Lib-Dems think.
- PeterWhittaker 11y ago
  True. I should have specified that I meant "Tory" in the early 18th C sense.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

> For example banning guns is similar philosophically to banning drugs If we consider one angle exclusively, yes, but it's more nuanced than a single angle.

AReallyGoodName 11y ago

It should be pointed out that 'banning guns' is a loaded phrase when talking about gun laws. Here in Australia gun laws removed stigma about gun ownership and we proudly have more guns than ever http://louderwithcrowder.com/australian-gun-ownership-rises-gun-crime-remains-low-america-still-at-fault/ http://louderwithcrowder.com/australian-gun-ownership-rises-... (linking to a pro gun blog so you can laugh at how they try to claim more guns in law abiding hands as a failure of gun control laws). I suspect this kind of thing is why gun laws are the way they are in America. Whereas I see it as a nuanced debate akin to driving regulations Americans seem to view it as 'banning guns' vs 'not banning guns'.