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If science has taught us anything, it's that Science is not a Revealed Truth but must be prone to criticism, testing, and new insights, not to mention the disco

If science has taught us anything, it's that Science is not a Revealed Truth but must be prone to criticism, testing, and new insights, not to mention the discovery of the unknown. Using 'global warming deniers,' a not-so-subtle comparison to Holocaust deniers, to denigrate an entire body of scientists (scientists, not politicians) who disagree about the degree, level, impact or even nature of global warming, is doing science on a whole a great disservice. Yes, logical fallacies are frequently used by all types to make cheap arguments. The point is no better made than in this comment.

nitrogen 11y ago
Let's not relitigate the use of the word "denier" here. If we can never again use any word that's ever been used in the same phrase as the word Holocaust, what does that benefit us?
- droopybuns 11y ago
  It rightfully shames tribal thought that attempts to masquerade as "scientific." There is value in shaming uncritical thinking.
Frondo 11y ago
Except, as has so often been pointed out, the "entire body of scientists" who reject AGW is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the entire body of climate scientists. And every so often it comes out that one of the high-profile deniers is on the payroll of some company that benefits from the confusion they stir up! You could probably find an "entire body of scientists" who believe in a flat-earth theory, and they too are worth ignoring or characterizing as "deniers".
spdustin 11y ago
Big leap to go from "global warming deniers" to "holocaust deniers". Talk about logical fallacies. First off, I want to clear something up for you. Science is, in fact, all about the "revealed truth". It serves to reveal the actual truth about the universe around us, from the tiniest particle whose truths we are still struggling to discover, to the machinations of huge, massive bodies as they hurtle through the mostly empty space around them, interacting with other massive bodies from a gargantuan distance using forces we can now predict with relatively simple mathematics. The "revealed truth" of our body of knowledge is just that: the truth of how things work, which is true whether or not we coax it into revealing itself to us through investigation and experimentation, but becomes revealed to us after the considerable effort of the scientists whose works you seem ready to dismiss because a handful of scientists don't agree with them. Is it also advisable to skip brushing your teeth because a commercial once said only "four out of five dentists agree: brush your teeth after every meal"? These scientists you speak of are not persecuted geniuses who are just misunderstood, they're actually bad at science, and their arguments have, time and time again, been proven incorrect by actual science, their methods have been proven flawed by actual scientific method, and their epithets hurled at all the "establishment scientists" serve only to weaken their position because it comes from a position of emotion rather than science. The comment to which you replied was clearly written by an impassioned observer who cares how science is applied, and yet you seem to confuse his position with that of actual climatologists. His comment is about the masses who do not understand how science reveals the truth of the world around us, and you literally stepped in to discredit his opinion statement by invoking the holocaust. It's shameful. And it's a shame, because your passion is better served by fighting for the pursuits of those seeking to reveal the truths hiding in plain sight, not arguing with concerned humans who just want the work to continue.
coliveira 11y ago
There is a big difference between scientists doing research, and possibly finding results that go against global warming, and deniers that are only using logical fallacies to support bogus claims. Scientists have no problems with serious research, whatever the conclusion. It is the second group of people that are making a big disservice to humanity.
madaxe_again 11y ago
I think you're the one making a comparison to holocaust deniers, with your frankly stinky rhetoric. Where I come from a denier is simply someone who denies something. As for an entire body of science - yes, all six of them. That climate change isn't happening is not a serious, majority, or even realistic view. It's based on wishful thinking and there's a strong correlation between "scientists" who don't believe (what the hell has it got to do with belief?!) in climate change and those same scientists believing that a deity farted out the earth some 4000 years ago (young earth creationism). You're now going to reply and tell me that we should carefully consider the evidence that dinosaurs are a hoax placed by satan, right?
- redblacktree 11y ago
  > scientists believing that a deity farted out the earth some 4000 years ago (young earth creationism). You're now going to reply and tell me that we should carefully consider the evidence that dinosaurs are a hoax placed by satan, right? Stinky rhetoric, indeed!

nitrogen 11y ago

Let's not relitigate the use of the word "denier" here. If we can never again use any word that's ever been used in the same phrase as the word Holocaust, what does that benefit us?

droopybuns 11y ago
It rightfully shames tribal thought that attempts to masquerade as "scientific." There is value in shaming uncritical thinking.

Frondo 11y ago

Except, as has so often been pointed out, the "entire body of scientists" who reject AGW is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the entire body of climate scientists. And every so often it comes out that one of the high-profile deniers is on the payroll of some company that benefits from the confusion they stir up! You could probably find an "entire body of scientists" who believe in a flat-earth theory, and they too are worth ignoring or characterizing as "deniers".

spdustin 11y ago

Big leap to go from "global warming deniers" to "holocaust deniers". Talk about logical fallacies. First off, I want to clear something up for you. Science is, in fact, all about the "revealed truth". It serves to reveal the actual truth about the universe around us, from the tiniest particle whose truths we are still struggling to discover, to the machinations of huge, massive bodies as they hurtle through the mostly empty space around them, interacting with other massive bodies from a gargantuan distance using forces we can now predict with relatively simple mathematics. The "revealed truth" of our body of knowledge is just that: the truth of how things work, which is true whether or not we coax it into revealing itself to us through investigation and experimentation, but becomes revealed to us after the considerable effort of the scientists whose works you seem ready to dismiss because a handful of scientists don't agree with them. Is it also advisable to skip brushing your teeth because a commercial once said only "four out of five dentists agree: brush your teeth after every meal"? These scientists you speak of are not persecuted geniuses who are just misunderstood, they're actually bad at science, and their arguments have, time and time again, been proven incorrect by actual science, their methods have been proven flawed by actual scientific method, and their epithets hurled at all the "establishment scientists" serve only to weaken their position because it comes from a position of emotion rather than science. The comment to which you replied was clearly written by an impassioned observer who cares how science is applied, and yet you seem to confuse his position with that of actual climatologists. His comment is about the masses who do not understand how science reveals the truth of the world around us, and you literally stepped in to discredit his opinion statement by invoking the holocaust. It's shameful. And it's a shame, because your passion is better served by fighting for the pursuits of those seeking to reveal the truths hiding in plain sight, not arguing with concerned humans who just want the work to continue.

coliveira 11y ago

There is a big difference between scientists doing research, and possibly finding results that go against global warming, and deniers that are only using logical fallacies to support bogus claims. Scientists have no problems with serious research, whatever the conclusion. It is the second group of people that are making a big disservice to humanity.

madaxe_again 11y ago

I think you're the one making a comparison to holocaust deniers, with your frankly stinky rhetoric. Where I come from a denier is simply someone who denies something. As for an entire body of science - yes, all six of them. That climate change isn't happening is not a serious, majority, or even realistic view. It's based on wishful thinking and there's a strong correlation between "scientists" who don't believe (what the hell has it got to do with belief?!) in climate change and those same scientists believing that a deity farted out the earth some 4000 years ago (young earth creationism). You're now going to reply and tell me that we should carefully consider the evidence that dinosaurs are a hoax placed by satan, right?

redblacktree 11y ago
> scientists believing that a deity farted out the earth some 4000 years ago (young earth creationism). You're now going to reply and tell me that we should carefully consider the evidence that dinosaurs are a hoax placed by satan, right? Stinky rhetoric, indeed!