5 ms·

The theory is for getting consistent/composable APIs, and trust in the code - trust that you can optimize it, parallelize it, or just that it behaves the way it

by T-R 11y ago

The theory is for getting consistent/composable APIs, and trust in the code - trust that you can optimize it, parallelize it, or just that it behaves the way it's supposed to, without having to read every line of it. You don't need to think in theory to benefit from that. While it's certainly cute that I can `gem install` a CMS, the Ruby ecosystem is infamous for its magical, non-composable, monolithic frameworks. The functional ecosystems are working toward fixing the all-too-familiar problem where you have to either start over, or hack apart some giant stateful mess anytime your exact usecase hasn't already been built as a library. It's easy to throw a nice looking house together with Lincoln Logs, but I'd take Lego instead any day. Edit: Also, just because someone hasn't built the tallest building in your neighborhood yet doesn't mean they're not building anything. JP Morgan, Kapersky, Facebook, and IMVU are hiring Haskell devs, just off the top of my head.

virtualwhys 11y ago
Agreed on popularity of language/framework not being an indicator of success (wrt to software evolution), quite the opposite seems to happen in the mainstream. Worth noting that finance industry heavyweights such as JP Morgan and Standard Chartered (largest Haskell shop in the world) are laying off more than they're hiring these days[0][1], though unlikely this trend would directly affect tech hires (current batch of layoffs seem to be a trimming of management tier). On a somewhat related note: were Standard Chartered to open source their fork of GHC many Haskellers not sold on lazy-by-default would rejoice; from Scala side of the fence my interest in Haskell would increase 10X were that to happen, line numbered stack traces alone, who woulda "thunk" it ;-) Moving forward Haskell's probably going to continue to be pilfered of its theoretical gems by other languages that leap frog it in terms of adoption. Not a bad thing if we take SPJ's "avoid success at all costs" at face value. [0] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-28/jpmorgan-said-to-plan-thousands-of-job-cuts-as-bank-pares-costs http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-28/jpmorgan-s... [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-20/standard-chartered-s-ceo-boosts-direct-control-in-overhaul http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-20/standard-c...
- tome 11y ago
  > Worth noting that finance industry heavyweights such as JP Morgan and Standard Chartered (largest Haskell shop in the world) are laying off more than they're hiring these days[0][1], though unlikely this trend would directly affect tech hires (current batch of layoffs seem to be a trimming of management tier). Indeed. Hiring of Haskellers continues apace at SC: https://twitter.com/donsbot/status/654630194519646208 https://twitter.com/donsbot/status/654630194519646208 > were Standard Chartered to open source their fork of GHC many Haskellers not sold on lazy-by-default would rejoice It's not a fork of GHC. It's an entirely new compiler, called Mu.
  - dons 11y ago
    Yes, the tech is eating the rest of the business. You need less people after you've turned a lot of the business into an API. I've got four open positions at the moment.
- T-R 11y ago
  Sure, we can have a perfectly reasonable debate as to whether or not lazy-by-default is the best choice for a language. I personally like the laziness, but if Scala, or Closure, or ML, or Elm, or maybe by some act of god COBOL "wins" by taking the good parts, that's fine. But here, we have an article trying to make some concept approachable - some math, not tied to a specific language. Maybe it's hard for most to follow, since it assumes the readers knows what a monad is. That's fair, but it'd be the same if it were Scala. The top comment here - and a significant number of the upvoted comments here, and on every similar article - are just baseless attacks against the idea that people should learn this. Not questions or technical discussion, just attempts to ostracize the part of the community that finds it valuable. It's anti-intellectualism, plain and simple. Maybe it's the terminology, or the syntax, or because articles didn't show the lock before giving the key, but it is what it is. - Re: Hiring - JP Morgan may be doing layoffs somewhere, but I mentioned them because they made a "Hiring Haskell Devs" post within the last week. Edit: Seriously, go re-read that top comment, from the condescending reference down to the assertion that it's all mental masturbation. In response to a post by a knowledgeable person trying to teach something useful to people who are interested. That's the top comment. Embarrassing.

by T-R 11y ago

virtualwhys 11y ago

Agreed on popularity of language/framework not being an indicator of success (wrt to software evolution), quite the opposite seems to happen in the mainstream. Worth noting that finance industry heavyweights such as JP Morgan and Standard Chartered (largest Haskell shop in the world) are laying off more than they're hiring these days[0][1], though unlikely this trend would directly affect tech hires (current batch of layoffs seem to be a trimming of management tier). On a somewhat related note: were Standard Chartered to open source their fork of GHC many Haskellers not sold on lazy-by-default would rejoice; from Scala side of the fence my interest in Haskell would increase 10X were that to happen, line numbered stack traces alone, who woulda "thunk" it ;-) Moving forward Haskell's probably going to continue to be pilfered of its theoretical gems by other languages that leap frog it in terms of adoption. Not a bad thing if we take SPJ's "avoid success at all costs" at face value. [0] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-28/jpmorgan-said-to-plan-thousands-of-job-cuts-as-bank-pares-costs http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-28/jpmorgan-s... [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-20/standard-chartered-s-ceo-boosts-direct-control-in-overhaul http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-20/standard-c...

tome 11y ago
> Worth noting that finance industry heavyweights such as JP Morgan and Standard Chartered (largest Haskell shop in the world) are laying off more than they're hiring these days[0][1], though unlikely this trend would directly affect tech hires (current batch of layoffs seem to be a trimming of management tier). Indeed. Hiring of Haskellers continues apace at SC: https://twitter.com/donsbot/status/654630194519646208 https://twitter.com/donsbot/status/654630194519646208 > were Standard Chartered to open source their fork of GHC many Haskellers not sold on lazy-by-default would rejoice It's not a fork of GHC. It's an entirely new compiler, called Mu.
- dons 11y ago
  Yes, the tech is eating the rest of the business. You need less people after you've turned a lot of the business into an API. I've got four open positions at the moment.
T-R 11y ago
Sure, we can have a perfectly reasonable debate as to whether or not lazy-by-default is the best choice for a language. I personally like the laziness, but if Scala, or Closure, or ML, or Elm, or maybe by some act of god COBOL "wins" by taking the good parts, that's fine. But here, we have an article trying to make some concept approachable - some math, not tied to a specific language. Maybe it's hard for most to follow, since it assumes the readers knows what a monad is. That's fair, but it'd be the same if it were Scala. The top comment here - and a significant number of the upvoted comments here, and on every similar article - are just baseless attacks against the idea that people should learn this. Not questions or technical discussion, just attempts to ostracize the part of the community that finds it valuable. It's anti-intellectualism, plain and simple. Maybe it's the terminology, or the syntax, or because articles didn't show the lock before giving the key, but it is what it is. - Re: Hiring - JP Morgan may be doing layoffs somewhere, but I mentioned them because they made a "Hiring Haskell Devs" post within the last week. Edit: Seriously, go re-read that top comment, from the condescending reference down to the assertion that it's all mental masturbation. In response to a post by a knowledgeable person trying to teach something useful to people who are interested. That's the top comment. Embarrassing.