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I think you should also consider the possibility that the Chinese entrepreneurs are speaking sincerely - while I know many natives (particularly among the white

by garply 17y ago

I think you should also consider the possibility that the Chinese entrepreneurs are speaking sincerely - while I know many natives (particularly among the white collar workers) here in China who find the gov't obnoxious, I also know many educated, intelligent people who would agree with these statements. And when you consider the statements of Chinese expats about the Chinese government - you have to expect an anti-Chinese government bias (merited by the government or not) in their views. I mean, they left China for a reason. It's a little like asking political exiles from Iran whether they like the Iranian government or not. In short, I don't think it's reasonable to completely toss out the statements of the people who haven't left China and focus only on the statements of the self-selecting population who have made a concerted effort to leave.

bilbo0s 17y ago
In the military this was called 'incestuous amplification', I don't know what the civilian term for it is. We tend to lend more credence and legitimacy to that portion of a population that agrees with our own views. Be very careful about falling prey to it. It has actually cost the US military dearly over the past 8 or 9 years. There are actually far reaching initiatives being pursued, at all levels of the military, to mitigate its effect with respect to groupthink in the future.
lmkg 17y ago
You're quite right that they could be telling their honest opinion. The point is, we can't tell anything about their honest opinions based on what they say. If they think X, they say X. If they think ~X, they say X. Therefore, when they say X, we gain no information.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  Being Chinese (Taiwanese to be specific) myself and knowing many Chinese people, I have to say it's more likely they are speaking the truth than not. This comes down to a matter of national pride: most Chinese care deeply about the pride of their nation, and the new generation (the ones that grew up under the current regime) seem to be incapable of separating the Chinese identity from the Chinese Communist Party. So, when criticism falls upon the government, even perfectly valid criticism, there is a perceived need to defend the government - since in their mind the government is the people. This false association causes a lot of problems, since it removes rational discourse. The new generation of Chinese have an immense amount of national pride, and IMHO this is going to be the biggest problem we face in the future.

by garply 17y ago

bilbo0s 17y ago

In the military this was called 'incestuous amplification', I don't know what the civilian term for it is. We tend to lend more credence and legitimacy to that portion of a population that agrees with our own views. Be very careful about falling prey to it. It has actually cost the US military dearly over the past 8 or 9 years. There are actually far reaching initiatives being pursued, at all levels of the military, to mitigate its effect with respect to groupthink in the future.

lmkg 17y ago

You're quite right that they could be telling their honest opinion. The point is, we can't tell anything about their honest opinions based on what they say. If they think X, they say X. If they think ~X, they say X. Therefore, when they say X, we gain no information.

potatolicious 17y ago
Being Chinese (Taiwanese to be specific) myself and knowing many Chinese people, I have to say it's more likely they are speaking the truth than not. This comes down to a matter of national pride: most Chinese care deeply about the pride of their nation, and the new generation (the ones that grew up under the current regime) seem to be incapable of separating the Chinese identity from the Chinese Communist Party. So, when criticism falls upon the government, even perfectly valid criticism, there is a perceived need to defend the government - since in their mind the government is the people. This false association causes a lot of problems, since it removes rational discourse. The new generation of Chinese have an immense amount of national pride, and IMHO this is going to be the biggest problem we face in the future.