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Biggest rules I've seen from working with chinese JV's; 1) Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This may happen while they are still worki

Biggest rules I've seen from working with chinese JV's; 1) Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This may happen while they are still working for you. If it's easy for your business to be stolen this way don't even bother setting up. 2) You need locals to handle staff. You're just a foreigner to be taken advantage of. They push rules and issues at you all day trying to get more. A local manager will tell them to bugger off in a way you can't. 3)The great firewall can be a bastard and your best with infrastructure inside the country and local knowledge. Things like don't use one time click links as these are used before they even get to the customer. 4) Chinese will often find a way to get something done with horribly inefficient routes and deals to the goal. Don't stress trying to make it efficient, this is China. 5) Dont expect your JV partner to work in the companies best interest. While China is a huge & interesting market, if there is anyway 1) is going to be the smallest concert or your reliance on a JV partner delivering something I'd look at other markets first. I'm genuinely surprised the west hasn't made China create a more level playing field for the right to trade/invest in our markets. One day the rest of the world will realise what a one sided deal China has become.

fspeech 11y ago
I wonder under what US non immigrant visa category a foreigner can come into the US and open a business and work as an owner/manager? http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/all-visa-categories.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/all-visa-ca... For example the requirement for B-1 (business visa) makes it clear that you are supposed to stay temporarily and not here to work: "For example, additional requested documents may include evidence of: The purpose of your trip; Your intent to depart the United States after your trip; and/or Your ability to pay all costs of the trip. Evidence of your employment and/or your family ties may be sufficient to show the purpose of your trip and your intent to return to your home country. " http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Speaking from my experiences in Shenzhen, so may be different in other cities (then again, Shenzhen is just next to Hong Kong, so it may be even worse up north) - and this feeds into your 1), 2) and 5): Nobody here speaks English. And I don't mean it like in typical Western way of "frankly, you must see that my language skills are indeed not suitably developed for this conversation" not speaking English. They'll roll their eyes if you say "hello" or "thank you" to them; you can sometimes get to be translated by a 9 years old (apparently they have English in schools now, or something - but I'm not sure). Even in tech companies people barely know any English - they know the work-related vocabulary, but forget talking about anything other than the job. So, learn their language or find someone who you trust who can speak it.
- zhte415 11y ago
  》 So, learn their language or find someone who you trust who can speak it. I agree on this point, but at a cultural, not language level. It's important to understand the personal goals and challenges of employees, wherever in the world, and sometimes they're quite different. On English in schools: China's high school qualification requires a 2nd language, which contributes 150 points to the total score (750), at the same level as Maths and Chinese (it then gets a bit complex depending on city and stream, but around 10 subjects are usually studied in a comprehensive school). It is required to pass in order to get a high school graduation certificate. Which is why the 9 year old can translate something. The thing is, it's not based on speaking. It's rote memorisation of grammar rules. And hated, as there's little practical application. On cross-cultural communication and hiring: And foreigners often just don't get that, resulting in patronising slowing down of speaking but absolutely no change/simplification of vocabulary. Or just no adaptation. Hence the eye-rolling. I'm in the Northeast, and it is indeed a challenge getting free-flowing conversation going with someone based on their selection itself based on paper qualifications. But it is a myth that English is a problem for the right people. Just interview for it.
contingencies 11y ago
Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This sounds a lot like the unfounded "don't tell anyone your idea, it might be stolen!" fear in Silicon Valley. If you are relying on security through obscurity to protect your business' viability, you're doing it wrong. You need locals to handle staff. You're just a foreigner to be taken advantage of. In my experience if you speak basic Chinese, personally hire and manage employees and pay and treat them fairly and offer income security, they will see you working hard and personally work hard and be extremely loyal to you, especially if you offer new skills and challenges. The great firewall can be a bastard and your best with infrastructure inside the country and local knowledge. Yes, domestic infrastructure is usually necessary due to poor international reliability and speed, but that's hardly an insurmountable or troublesome issue. Chinese will often find a way to get something done with horribly inefficient routes and deals to the goal. Don't stress trying to make it efficient, this is China. China can also be amazingly efficient. Look at automation in electronics supply chains, dirt cheap national next-day couriers, a relatively inexpensive national culture of 'book it the day you fly' travel, and often free international financial transfer to Chinese banks in foreign locations. Compare sea-freight, Fedex, rent-seeking travel suppliers, and the pain that is SWIFT. Not to mention Taobao versus driving to the mall, e-bikes versus cars, or permanently open restaurants everywhere! (Not to mention completing divorce proceedings for 8元 = USD$1.50!) Dont expect your JV partner to work in the companies best interest. Self-interest is normal in business anywhere. Trust and good partners are hard to find.
- ssalazar 11y ago
  >> Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. > This sounds a lot like the unfounded "don't tell anyone your idea, it might be stolen!" fear in Silicon Valley. Its much different. Mechanical drawings, materials processes, and electrical designs that might have taken thousands of man-hours to develop, test, and refine are actually valuable, unlike "this great app idea I came up with in the shower." > If you are relying on security through obscurity to protect your business' viability, you're doing it wrong. Security through obscurity refers to computer security processes. "Business by obscurity" is the industry standard, unless you think Apple, Microsoft, Coca Cola, and Wall Street traders are doing it wrong.

fspeech 11y ago

I wonder under what US non immigrant visa category a foreigner can come into the US and open a business and work as an owner/manager? http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/all-visa-categories.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/all-visa-ca... For example the requirement for B-1 (business visa) makes it clear that you are supposed to stay temporarily and not here to work: "For example, additional requested documents may include evidence of: The purpose of your trip; Your intent to depart the United States after your trip; and/or Your ability to pay all costs of the trip. Evidence of your employment and/or your family ties may be sufficient to show the purpose of your trip and your intent to return to your home country. " http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html

TeMPOraL 11y ago

Speaking from my experiences in Shenzhen, so may be different in other cities (then again, Shenzhen is just next to Hong Kong, so it may be even worse up north) - and this feeds into your 1), 2) and 5): Nobody here speaks English. And I don't mean it like in typical Western way of "frankly, you must see that my language skills are indeed not suitably developed for this conversation" not speaking English. They'll roll their eyes if you say "hello" or "thank you" to them; you can sometimes get to be translated by a 9 years old (apparently they have English in schools now, or something - but I'm not sure). Even in tech companies people barely know any English - they know the work-related vocabulary, but forget talking about anything other than the job. So, learn their language or find someone who you trust who can speak it.

zhte415 11y ago
》 So, learn their language or find someone who you trust who can speak it. I agree on this point, but at a cultural, not language level. It's important to understand the personal goals and challenges of employees, wherever in the world, and sometimes they're quite different. On English in schools: China's high school qualification requires a 2nd language, which contributes 150 points to the total score (750), at the same level as Maths and Chinese (it then gets a bit complex depending on city and stream, but around 10 subjects are usually studied in a comprehensive school). It is required to pass in order to get a high school graduation certificate. Which is why the 9 year old can translate something. The thing is, it's not based on speaking. It's rote memorisation of grammar rules. And hated, as there's little practical application. On cross-cultural communication and hiring: And foreigners often just don't get that, resulting in patronising slowing down of speaking but absolutely no change/simplification of vocabulary. Or just no adaptation. Hence the eye-rolling. I'm in the Northeast, and it is indeed a challenge getting free-flowing conversation going with someone based on their selection itself based on paper qualifications. But it is a myth that English is a problem for the right people. Just interview for it.

contingencies 11y ago

Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This sounds a lot like the unfounded "don't tell anyone your idea, it might be stolen!" fear in Silicon Valley. If you are relying on security through obscurity to protect your business' viability, you're doing it wrong. You need locals to handle staff. You're just a foreigner to be taken advantage of. In my experience if you speak basic Chinese, personally hire and manage employees and pay and treat them fairly and offer income security, they will see you working hard and personally work hard and be extremely loyal to you, especially if you offer new skills and challenges. The great firewall can be a bastard and your best with infrastructure inside the country and local knowledge. Yes, domestic infrastructure is usually necessary due to poor international reliability and speed, but that's hardly an insurmountable or troublesome issue. Chinese will often find a way to get something done with horribly inefficient routes and deals to the goal. Don't stress trying to make it efficient, this is China. China can also be amazingly efficient. Look at automation in electronics supply chains, dirt cheap national next-day couriers, a relatively inexpensive national culture of 'book it the day you fly' travel, and often free international financial transfer to Chinese banks in foreign locations. Compare sea-freight, Fedex, rent-seeking travel suppliers, and the pain that is SWIFT. Not to mention Taobao versus driving to the mall, e-bikes versus cars, or permanently open restaurants everywhere! (Not to mention completing divorce proceedings for 8元 = USD$1.50!) Dont expect your JV partner to work in the companies best interest. Self-interest is normal in business anywhere. Trust and good partners are hard to find.

ssalazar 11y ago
>> Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. > This sounds a lot like the unfounded "don't tell anyone your idea, it might be stolen!" fear in Silicon Valley. Its much different. Mechanical drawings, materials processes, and electrical designs that might have taken thousands of man-hours to develop, test, and refine are actually valuable, unlike "this great app idea I came up with in the shower." > If you are relying on security through obscurity to protect your business' viability, you're doing it wrong. Security through obscurity refers to computer security processes. "Business by obscurity" is the industry standard, unless you think Apple, Microsoft, Coca Cola, and Wall Street traders are doing it wrong.