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Cookie law, VAT MOSS, Abmahnungen and now the Öttinger tax. Even if you don't care about the risk, you would be stupid to found a startup in a EU country.

noir_lord 11y ago
All bad things but also they brought in strong privacy protections, held national governments to account for privacy invasions, have broadly stronger environment and safety legislation that most other regions. The EU isn't all good or all bad it's just huge.
- tobltobs 11y ago
  "strong privacy protections ..", what do you mean? The Cookie law? "held national governments to account for privacy invasions"? They are sending our data to the US (e.g. data for airline passengers). "have broadly stronger environment and safety legislation" Maybe on paper, the EU agencies did know for years that VW (and other EU car producer) did cheat.
  - noir_lord 11y ago
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/eu-rules-uks-porn-filters-are-illegal-a6711756.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new... (ruled default filters where illegal) http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-15-5654_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-15-5654_en.ht... (ECJ overruled blanket Data Retention). http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-court-strikes-down-trans-atlantic-safe-harbor-data-transfer-pact-1444121361 http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-court-strikes-down-trans-atla... (safe harbour struck down). Specific instances show there are problems but all large scale human systems are messy. Yeah the EU isn't perfect but nothing is, I'd sooner my country (the UK) was in it than not though.
    - Silhouette 11y ago
      The trouble is, the UK government is demonstrably willing to ignore EU rules it doesn't like, and there is nothing any normal citizen affected by that can do about it. Airport body scanners, all the Internet surveillance stuff... For our recent authoritarian governments, national security paranoia seems to trump privacy concerns every time, and blatantly ignoring European rulings to the contrary appears to be standard procedure at the moment. I haven't made up my mind yet about whether we're better off in the EU than out. It's obviously a complicated question. But something that is a big factor in favour of leaving is that there is so much one-sided co-operation: the EU seems to be used as a convenient excuse to justify unpopular rules that might cause political problems at home, because we "have to comply with the EU directives" or some such, yet apparently we have no trouble not complying when the EU rules are less convenient.
      - noir_lord 11y ago
        Completely agree, the other thing the EU doesn't do well is sell the benefits, there are some real ones but all you ever see is some crazy story in the media about bananas or something equally asinine.
ajmurmann 11y ago
Are Abmahnungen still a big issue in Germany? I remember being constantly furious about it when I lived there. I'm glad I had completely forgotten those ever existed.
EdwardDiego 11y ago
What's Abmahnungen?
- thesimon 11y ago
  He's probably talking about the following: If you torrent for example a copyrighted mp3 and you are not leeching, you are actively uploading the file and sharing it with others. And a lot of lawyers are now actively tracking peer-to-peer networks/torrents to see who is sharing the file. They then send out a "Abmahnung" and charge the user a few hundred euros.
  - EdwardDiego 11y ago
    Ah yep, yeah I've heard about the profitable business of extorting torrenters. Germans just use American torrent boxes and VPNs.

noir_lord 11y ago

All bad things but also they brought in strong privacy protections, held national governments to account for privacy invasions, have broadly stronger environment and safety legislation that most other regions. The EU isn't all good or all bad it's just huge.

tobltobs 11y ago
"strong privacy protections ..", what do you mean? The Cookie law? "held national governments to account for privacy invasions"? They are sending our data to the US (e.g. data for airline passengers). "have broadly stronger environment and safety legislation" Maybe on paper, the EU agencies did know for years that VW (and other EU car producer) did cheat.
- noir_lord 11y ago
  http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/eu-rules-uks-porn-filters-are-illegal-a6711756.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new... (ruled default filters where illegal) http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-15-5654_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-15-5654_en.ht... (ECJ overruled blanket Data Retention). http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-court-strikes-down-trans-atlantic-safe-harbor-data-transfer-pact-1444121361 http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-court-strikes-down-trans-atla... (safe harbour struck down). Specific instances show there are problems but all large scale human systems are messy. Yeah the EU isn't perfect but nothing is, I'd sooner my country (the UK) was in it than not though.
  - Silhouette 11y ago
    The trouble is, the UK government is demonstrably willing to ignore EU rules it doesn't like, and there is nothing any normal citizen affected by that can do about it. Airport body scanners, all the Internet surveillance stuff... For our recent authoritarian governments, national security paranoia seems to trump privacy concerns every time, and blatantly ignoring European rulings to the contrary appears to be standard procedure at the moment. I haven't made up my mind yet about whether we're better off in the EU than out. It's obviously a complicated question. But something that is a big factor in favour of leaving is that there is so much one-sided co-operation: the EU seems to be used as a convenient excuse to justify unpopular rules that might cause political problems at home, because we "have to comply with the EU directives" or some such, yet apparently we have no trouble not complying when the EU rules are less convenient.
    - noir_lord 11y ago
      Completely agree, the other thing the EU doesn't do well is sell the benefits, there are some real ones but all you ever see is some crazy story in the media about bananas or something equally asinine.

ajmurmann 11y ago

Are Abmahnungen still a big issue in Germany? I remember being constantly furious about it when I lived there. I'm glad I had completely forgotten those ever existed.

EdwardDiego 11y ago

What's Abmahnungen?

thesimon 11y ago
He's probably talking about the following: If you torrent for example a copyrighted mp3 and you are not leeching, you are actively uploading the file and sharing it with others. And a lot of lawyers are now actively tracking peer-to-peer networks/torrents to see who is sharing the file. They then send out a "Abmahnung" and charge the user a few hundred euros.
- EdwardDiego 11y ago
  Ah yep, yeah I've heard about the profitable business of extorting torrenters. Germans just use American torrent boxes and VPNs.