4 ms·

I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon for work. We are a small business so it's important that we get all the VAT invoices for purchases where available. I have los

I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon for work. We are a small business so it's important that we get all the VAT invoices for purchases where available. I have lost count of the number of people who mysteriously are not VAT registered, or will not provide an invoice no matter how hard I try. You get to know who the bulshitters are pretty quickly but it's still a problem.

steaminghacker 11y ago
same problem here. I usually buy only from amazon themselves, rather than any third party seller, if i want a proper VAT invoice. Sometimes i do buy from others, providing i get their VAT number. but in such cases, the VAT amount is never itemised on the amazon invoice.
dogma1138 11y ago
Small businesses with revenue of less than 100K a year* can opt-out of VAT registration hence will not charge VAT and thus cannot generate you a VAT invoice. And as far as "marketplaces" go the HMRC's own website says that you can use 3rd party websites to actually ignore the VAT MOSS requirements as the site's operator should handle it for you. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... While there ofc is a way for marketplace providers to throw the liability back into the hands of the small business which uses them I have a strong feeling that neither Amazon nor eBay make it particularity clear or advertise it, add to that the open endorsement that HMRC and various small business "associations" gave marketplaces as a easy tool to reduce the VAT burden on small businesses and you might have quite a few instances of unintentional "fraud". *I'm assuming since you are commenting on a UK specific issue you are in the UK if you are not there might be other regulation or different caps for small businesses to opt-out of VAT.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Unfortunately that's almost correct. See, if you sell to a Spanish citizen you now are unable to opt-out of VAT, because Spain does not have such a minimum. The whole VAT/sales tax situation in the EU is incredibly complex and it's little issues like the one you missed that can completely mess up your otherwise orderly run company.
  - dublinclontarf 11y ago
    That is only the case if you're providing digital goods.
  - DrJokepu 11y ago
    *Resident of Spain, not Spanish citizen. Big difference. With the exception of the residents of Canary Islands, Ceuta, Mellila, which are part of Spain and the EU, but not part of the EU VAT area.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Yeah I know :) but it wasn't the place to bitch and moan about that since it had very little to do with that subject. And I've already complained about it that day :P https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526551 There is so much nonsense with the new VAT regulation and so much internal contradiction that I'll be surprised if it won't explode within a year or so.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
to3m 11y ago
"If you knew that fraud was being committed you are liable," she added. "If you should have known that fraud was being committed, you are liable as well." So I hope you informed the proper authorities promptly!
the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
Github is the worst. They charge vat but do not provide vat receipts. So frustrating and i'm pretty sure illegal.
- to3m 11y ago
  Have you asked them for one? VAT receipts need only be issued to VAT-registered buyers, so they might not issue them by default. (I've never dealt with Github, so they might genuinely be being dicks about it.)
- MistahKoala 11y ago
  So far as I know, Github don't have a presence in the EEA, do they?
  - vidarh 11y ago
    That affects their risk profile, not whether or not it is legal. The EU has specific rules that affect foreign sellers selling products and services to customers in the EU, irrespective of where the seller is located.
  - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
    They have and they are legally required to given their size.

steaminghacker 11y ago

same problem here. I usually buy only from amazon themselves, rather than any third party seller, if i want a proper VAT invoice. Sometimes i do buy from others, providing i get their VAT number. but in such cases, the VAT amount is never itemised on the amazon invoice.

dogma1138 11y ago

Small businesses with revenue of less than 100K a year* can opt-out of VAT registration hence will not charge VAT and thus cannot generate you a VAT invoice. And as far as "marketplaces" go the HMRC's own website says that you can use 3rd party websites to actually ignore the VAT MOSS requirements as the site's operator should handle it for you. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... While there ofc is a way for marketplace providers to throw the liability back into the hands of the small business which uses them I have a strong feeling that neither Amazon nor eBay make it particularity clear or advertise it, add to that the open endorsement that HMRC and various small business "associations" gave marketplaces as a easy tool to reduce the VAT burden on small businesses and you might have quite a few instances of unintentional "fraud". *I'm assuming since you are commenting on a UK specific issue you are in the UK if you are not there might be other regulation or different caps for small businesses to opt-out of VAT.

jacquesm 11y ago
Unfortunately that's almost correct. See, if you sell to a Spanish citizen you now are unable to opt-out of VAT, because Spain does not have such a minimum. The whole VAT/sales tax situation in the EU is incredibly complex and it's little issues like the one you missed that can completely mess up your otherwise orderly run company.
- dublinclontarf 11y ago
  That is only the case if you're providing digital goods.
- DrJokepu 11y ago
  *Resident of Spain, not Spanish citizen. Big difference. With the exception of the residents of Canary Islands, Ceuta, Mellila, which are part of Spain and the EU, but not part of the EU VAT area.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dogma1138 11y ago
  Yeah I know :) but it wasn't the place to bitch and moan about that since it had very little to do with that subject. And I've already complained about it that day :P https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10526551 There is so much nonsense with the new VAT regulation and so much internal contradiction that I'll be surprised if it won't explode within a year or so.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

to3m 11y ago

"If you knew that fraud was being committed you are liable," she added. "If you should have known that fraud was being committed, you are liable as well." So I hope you informed the proper authorities promptly!

the_mitsuhiko 11y ago

Github is the worst. They charge vat but do not provide vat receipts. So frustrating and i'm pretty sure illegal.

to3m 11y ago
Have you asked them for one? VAT receipts need only be issued to VAT-registered buyers, so they might not issue them by default. (I've never dealt with Github, so they might genuinely be being dicks about it.)
MistahKoala 11y ago
So far as I know, Github don't have a presence in the EEA, do they?
- vidarh 11y ago
  That affects their risk profile, not whether or not it is legal. The EU has specific rules that affect foreign sellers selling products and services to customers in the EU, irrespective of where the seller is located.
- the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
  They have and they are legally required to given their size.