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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_dependence#/media/File:Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_(physical_harm_an

by Zikes 11y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_dependence#/media/File:Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_(physical_harm_and_dependence,_NA_free_means).svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_dependence#/media/Fi... According to the above chart, tobacco, whose addictiveness is driven by nicotine, ranks above the following in dependence: meth, alcohol, steroids, ketamines, and barbiturates. It's only slightly trailing cocaine. Caffeine isn't even on the chart, but even if that were due to "sociological perception", I've no doubt that it would be at the bottom-left of that chart.

sophacles 11y ago
But you are now confusing tobacco with nicotine. The harm of tobacco is not driven by nicotine, even if the addictiveness is. Further, while the addictiveness of tobacco is primarily driven by nicotine, it is enhanced by MAOIs in tobacco as well by other substances: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/tobacco/are-there-other-chemicals-may-contribute-to-tobacco-addiction https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/toba... Therefore the chart you link is not really that valid in terms of nicotine vs caffeine. In fact - many people who switch from tobacco to vaping report that it is a difficult switch. Part of it is that the act of vaping isn't the act of smoking, and it's a habit replacement problem. But other parts of that can easily be explained by the MAOIs (more studies are required of course). The other thing reported often, by people who switch to vaping then successfully quit all nicotine is that it's easier to quit vaping than it is to quit tobacco directly - this is probably due to just nicotine vs nicotine+ in tobacco. Finally - it is very hard to find studies on nicotine addiction independent of tobacco use. Seriously, until very recently, the way to get nicotine was via tobacco, so almost all claims about nicotine use are about tobacco use in general. The chemical pathways are understood, but the effects of just nicotine on long term dependence are all in the context of tobacco. Conversely the page on caffeine in wikipedia - under the heading "Reinforcement disorders" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Reinforcement_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Reinforcement_disorde... ) does discuss that the claims of caffeine not being addictive are pretty contested. Basically your points about nicotine are not quite as solid as you claim.

by Zikes 11y ago

sophacles 11y ago

But you are now confusing tobacco with nicotine. The harm of tobacco is not driven by nicotine, even if the addictiveness is. Further, while the addictiveness of tobacco is primarily driven by nicotine, it is enhanced by MAOIs in tobacco as well by other substances: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/tobacco/are-there-other-chemicals-may-contribute-to-tobacco-addiction https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/toba... Therefore the chart you link is not really that valid in terms of nicotine vs caffeine. In fact - many people who switch from tobacco to vaping report that it is a difficult switch. Part of it is that the act of vaping isn't the act of smoking, and it's a habit replacement problem. But other parts of that can easily be explained by the MAOIs (more studies are required of course). The other thing reported often, by people who switch to vaping then successfully quit all nicotine is that it's easier to quit vaping than it is to quit tobacco directly - this is probably due to just nicotine vs nicotine+ in tobacco. Finally - it is very hard to find studies on nicotine addiction independent of tobacco use. Seriously, until very recently, the way to get nicotine was via tobacco, so almost all claims about nicotine use are about tobacco use in general. The chemical pathways are understood, but the effects of just nicotine on long term dependence are all in the context of tobacco. Conversely the page on caffeine in wikipedia - under the heading "Reinforcement disorders" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Reinforcement_disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Reinforcement_disorde... ) does discuss that the claims of caffeine not being addictive are pretty contested. Basically your points about nicotine are not quite as solid as you claim.