3 ms·

> I spent hours and hours in 2007/08 watching Obama with the hope that change is real this time If most people just watch, even the best efforts towards change

> I spent hours and hours in 2007/08 watching Obama with the hope that change is real this time If most people just watch, even the best efforts towards change are going to be subverted. > With the current candidates on either side, just bracing for worse. There's always Bernie, but it means putting some effort into the political process yourself. :) > What I understand is that the power of corporate America, Wall Street, the corporate, the media is so great that real change to transform our country does not take place unless MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BEGIN TO STAND UP and say very loudly and clearly that the United States government has got to represent all of us, and not just the top 1 percent," he said.

btilly 11y ago
What makes you think that Bernie Sanders is any different on this issue than anyone else? Sure, he says nice things about stopping the programs. But he's clear that Snowden should go through the legal process and receive punishment. In particular he does NOT say that he would give Snowden clemency. Which makes his position indistinguishable in practice from Hillary's.
- linkregister 11y ago
  It appears you're conflating a stand on a particular issue with the others your parent poster brought up. A cursory look at the two candidates' platforms shows their positions to be widely divergent, especially when it comes to foreign policy and defense.
- frostmatthew 11y ago
  > Which makes his position indistinguishable in practice from Hillary's. Love him or hate him, we all owe Snowden our thanks for forcing upon the nation an important debate. But the debate shouldn't be about him. It should be about the gnawing questions his actions raised from the shadows.[1] Not sure "indistinguishable" is the most accurate word. Seems her stance is much less forgiving/lenient and focuses more on the act of breaking the law and that he should be punished for that.[2] [1] http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sanders-snowden-nsa-democratic-debate?CMP=twt_gu http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sande...
  - fineman 11y ago
    There are two positions, 1) punish Edward for revealing what our servants do in our name or 2) do not. Everyone is camp #1 is indistinguishable from the people who abuse our trust themseves. Criminal.
- flycaliguy 11y ago
  He may be in perfect agreement with Snowden himself. I believe Snowden would be happy to serve a reasonable prison sentence after a fair trial.
mc32 11y ago
I think it's a mistake to think that people disagree on the general direction, other than jobs (income). If anything, the 1%ers tend to be more concerned with esoterics of law, war, etc, than the rah rah working class.
urda 11y ago
> There's always Bernie If you think Bernie is going to actually do anything different if he makes it to the White House, well you are living in a dream world then.

btilly 11y ago

What makes you think that Bernie Sanders is any different on this issue than anyone else? Sure, he says nice things about stopping the programs. But he's clear that Snowden should go through the legal process and receive punishment. In particular he does NOT say that he would give Snowden clemency. Which makes his position indistinguishable in practice from Hillary's.

linkregister 11y ago
It appears you're conflating a stand on a particular issue with the others your parent poster brought up. A cursory look at the two candidates' platforms shows their positions to be widely divergent, especially when it comes to foreign policy and defense.
frostmatthew 11y ago
> Which makes his position indistinguishable in practice from Hillary's. Love him or hate him, we all owe Snowden our thanks for forcing upon the nation an important debate. But the debate shouldn't be about him. It should be about the gnawing questions his actions raised from the shadows.[1] Not sure "indistinguishable" is the most accurate word. Seems her stance is much less forgiving/lenient and focuses more on the act of breaking the law and that he should be punished for that.[2] [1] http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-care-about-edward-snowden http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/why-i-dont-... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sanders-snowden-nsa-democratic-debate?CMP=twt_gu http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/clinton-sande...
- fineman 11y ago
  There are two positions, 1) punish Edward for revealing what our servants do in our name or 2) do not. Everyone is camp #1 is indistinguishable from the people who abuse our trust themseves. Criminal.
flycaliguy 11y ago
He may be in perfect agreement with Snowden himself. I believe Snowden would be happy to serve a reasonable prison sentence after a fair trial.

mc32 11y ago

I think it's a mistake to think that people disagree on the general direction, other than jobs (income). If anything, the 1%ers tend to be more concerned with esoterics of law, war, etc, than the rah rah working class.

urda 11y ago

> There's always Bernie If you think Bernie is going to actually do anything different if he makes it to the White House, well you are living in a dream world then.