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Thats not the deal thats being offered, thats a lie which most people are willing to swallow. The deal is, give up your freedom, in exchange for having masters

by antocv 11y ago

Thats not the deal thats being offered, thats a lie which most people are willing to swallow. The deal is, give up your freedom, in exchange for having masters. Still a reasonable deal for most people.

slg 11y ago
>The deal is, give up your freedom, in exchange for having masters Except this is a theoretical argument that doesn't hold much weight to normal people in the real world. How does mass surveillance today harm Joe Six Pack who lives a modest middle class life in Cleveland, Ohio? It doesn't.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  That the harm isn't noticed is not the same thing as there being no harm. See also the harm caused by petroleum usage that Joe Six Pack also ignores, not understanding that ignorance is no protection from reality.
  - slg 11y ago
    Petroleum usage causes real concrete harm like climate change. What real world harm does the NSA inflict on the American public? "Losing your freedom" means absolutely nothing to the average person if their life in not affected in any measurable way. If you want to convince people why the NSA's actions are bad, you need a way to explain it without resulting to slippery slope or philosophical arguments that are so easily written off or ignored.
  - soared 11y ago
    That is the whole point though. If I don't experience the harm, you'll have to convince me it actually exists. I'll gladly take a deal if I have some reasonable doubt in the harm, or know it won't effect me.
- antocv 11y ago
  There is no harm in slavery, per se, from a theoretical perspective a slave is at leat housed and fed by his masters. Theoretical arguments go both ways, see, in the real world, people are being tortued and killed as we speak. Due to NSA surveillance. See Joe Six Pack, a guy who went to serve his country in the military, doing what he thinks is best, ended up in solitary confinement for following his good Joe Six Pack sense of moral and ethics, those same instilled into him by his country since a young age, freedom and democracy, to do whats right and just, in the land of the free. Well now Joe Sick Pack will not see daylight for the rest of his life, see, because he told something to someone who he was not allowed to by those in power. Couch I mean Chelsea Manning.
junto 11y ago
This is the crux of the problem. We are all forced to watch the world like a film and it is them who are the directors and its director is Michael Bay. Even the directors cut is only part of the picture and even if you are privy to the fact that there is a story book on which the movie is based, you'll find that it is out of print and the TPPA has prevented it from being published for another 125 years.

by antocv 11y ago

slg 11y ago

>The deal is, give up your freedom, in exchange for having masters Except this is a theoretical argument that doesn't hold much weight to normal people in the real world. How does mass surveillance today harm Joe Six Pack who lives a modest middle class life in Cleveland, Ohio? It doesn't.

oldmanjay 11y ago
That the harm isn't noticed is not the same thing as there being no harm. See also the harm caused by petroleum usage that Joe Six Pack also ignores, not understanding that ignorance is no protection from reality.
- slg 11y ago
  Petroleum usage causes real concrete harm like climate change. What real world harm does the NSA inflict on the American public? "Losing your freedom" means absolutely nothing to the average person if their life in not affected in any measurable way. If you want to convince people why the NSA's actions are bad, you need a way to explain it without resulting to slippery slope or philosophical arguments that are so easily written off or ignored.
- soared 11y ago
  That is the whole point though. If I don't experience the harm, you'll have to convince me it actually exists. I'll gladly take a deal if I have some reasonable doubt in the harm, or know it won't effect me.
antocv 11y ago
There is no harm in slavery, per se, from a theoretical perspective a slave is at leat housed and fed by his masters. Theoretical arguments go both ways, see, in the real world, people are being tortued and killed as we speak. Due to NSA surveillance. See Joe Six Pack, a guy who went to serve his country in the military, doing what he thinks is best, ended up in solitary confinement for following his good Joe Six Pack sense of moral and ethics, those same instilled into him by his country since a young age, freedom and democracy, to do whats right and just, in the land of the free. Well now Joe Sick Pack will not see daylight for the rest of his life, see, because he told something to someone who he was not allowed to by those in power. Couch I mean Chelsea Manning.

junto 11y ago

This is the crux of the problem. We are all forced to watch the world like a film and it is them who are the directors and its director is Michael Bay. Even the directors cut is only part of the picture and even if you are privy to the fact that there is a story book on which the movie is based, you'll find that it is out of print and the TPPA has prevented it from being published for another 125 years.