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The rights are unwaivable because the power ballance in an employee/employer relationship is almost without exception massively tilted in the favour of the empl

by throwaway2048 11y ago

The rights are unwaivable because the power ballance in an employee/employer relationship is almost without exception massively tilted in the favour of the employer. If these rights could be waived, you can be certain that virtually every single employment contract would waive them. Except perhaps in the case of unionized workshops, where the employers and employees can negotiate on actual equal terms.

SilasX 11y ago
>The rights are unwaivable because the power ballance in an employee/employer relationship is almost without exception massively tilted in the favour of the employer. Appealing to a power imbalance as invalidating any rights waiver, would likewise prove that workers shouldn't be able to transact with employers at all. As before, all transactions are going to involve giving up some rights.
- throwaway2048 11y ago
  that really does not follow at all, unless you make the assumption that all rights are equally important, which is nonsense. Giving up my "right" to unemployed free time is a lot less important than giving up my right to not be sold into slavery.
  - SilasX 11y ago
    It would still involve an articulation and justification of the distinction between waivable and unwaivable rights, which you didn't previously provide. Could you help improve my worldmodel to the point that it contains this distinction?
    - throwaway2048 11y ago
      its a vast topic by itself, but its usually based around the idea that violating unwaivable rights would be grossly unfair or abusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability is a closely related concept. Unfortunately for the people that like to think about the law in terms of hard logical equation evaluations, this is one area that is quite "fuzzy", simply because of the massive amount of circumstance surronding individual issues.
- aikah 11y ago
  > As before, all transactions are going to involve giving up some rights. But no transaction involves giving up the right to contest the nature of the transaction and its lawfulness. I could sign a contract saying I have to work 100 hours a week tomorrow it wouldn't matter, that's illegal. If my employer fires me for not working 100 hours a week effectively well, too bad, he's going to bleed a lot of money in a court of law, because what he made me sign was illegal at first place. A contract isn't a holy paper that superseeds the law.
  - SilasX 11y ago
    >But no transaction involves giving up the right to contest the nature of the transaction and its lawfulness. Is that the right Uber drivers were force to give up? I can't tell what this is referring to.

SilasX 11y ago

>The rights are unwaivable because the power ballance in an employee/employer relationship is almost without exception massively tilted in the favour of the employer. Appealing to a power imbalance as invalidating any rights waiver, would likewise prove that workers shouldn't be able to transact with employers at all. As before, all transactions are going to involve giving up some rights.

throwaway2048 11y ago
that really does not follow at all, unless you make the assumption that all rights are equally important, which is nonsense. Giving up my "right" to unemployed free time is a lot less important than giving up my right to not be sold into slavery.
- SilasX 11y ago
  It would still involve an articulation and justification of the distinction between waivable and unwaivable rights, which you didn't previously provide. Could you help improve my worldmodel to the point that it contains this distinction?
  - throwaway2048 11y ago
    its a vast topic by itself, but its usually based around the idea that violating unwaivable rights would be grossly unfair or abusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability is a closely related concept. Unfortunately for the people that like to think about the law in terms of hard logical equation evaluations, this is one area that is quite "fuzzy", simply because of the massive amount of circumstance surronding individual issues.
aikah 11y ago
> As before, all transactions are going to involve giving up some rights. But no transaction involves giving up the right to contest the nature of the transaction and its lawfulness. I could sign a contract saying I have to work 100 hours a week tomorrow it wouldn't matter, that's illegal. If my employer fires me for not working 100 hours a week effectively well, too bad, he's going to bleed a lot of money in a court of law, because what he made me sign was illegal at first place. A contract isn't a holy paper that superseeds the law.
- SilasX 11y ago
  >But no transaction involves giving up the right to contest the nature of the transaction and its lawfulness. Is that the right Uber drivers were force to give up? I can't tell what this is referring to.