7 ms·
I agree for this particular scenario but saying you'd rather use a plant than an opioid when some plants (like opium!) produce the same effects is disingenuous.
by lagadu 11y ago
I agree for this particular scenario but saying you'd rather use a plant than an opioid when some plants (like opium!) produce the same effects is disingenuous.
Something being a plant doesn't make it automatically better or worse than something artificial, otherwise we'd all be taking some nice nightshade tea instead of aspirin.
- GordonS 11y agosigh, I knew someone would nitpick :) Perhaps I should have been clearer; My point about it being simply 'a plant' is more that it can be grown at home by users - no need for heavy refinement, solvents, chemical processes or pharmaceutical companies.
- milkytron 11y agoAs time goes on though, as we can already see, specific components that make up the plant will be taken out and used on their own. This is already happening with THC and CBD with the plant being made into oils and concentrates. If cannabis becomes legal, I'm sure pharmaceutical companies will continue this trend in an aim to find the purest and most effective way to administer the drug, just like opioids today.
- GordonS 11y agoYes, it's probably inevitable. I can't find the link now, but I recently read a paper from Israel about how the effects of CBD acted in a bell curve when administered alone, but were much more linear when taken as part of a whole plant. There are many cannabinoids, and they do often seem to work best when taken together.
- nommm-nommm 11y agoI'd still rather take an aspirin than eat willow bark though. Acetylsalicylic acid has less side effects than salicylic acid and made it safer! Isolating salicylic acid from willow bark and then a century later synthesizing acetylsalicylic from salicylic acid were all major achievements in medicine. It wasn't some sort of evil scheme. I'm also guessing synthesizing acetylsalicylic in a lab is better than growing willow trees in almost every way. Less resource intensive, more environmentally friendly, cheaper, easier to scale, and faster production. The "natural is always better" (for varying definitions or "natural", of course!) argument is silly. "heavy refinement, solvents, chemical processes" are all just scare words. They don't mean anything useful. I can use those words to accurately describe cooking my dinner.
- ihsw 11y agoThe usage of "heavy refinement, solvents, and chemical processes" wasn't meant to scare, it was meant to inform -- those have costs associated to them, high costs. The process of taking willow bark and turning it into a consumable product is not minimal, whereas taking cannabis and turning it into a consumable product is very minimal. From a practicality standpoint, it is simply logical that medicine derived from cannabis is superior to willow bark.
- thaumasiotes 11y ago> The process of taking willow bark and turning it into a consumable product is not minimal How did you get this idea? Scrape some bark off a tree and steep it in hot water. You now have a consumable product.
- billmalarky 11y agoI don't claim to be an expert, but I've read time and time again the argument (from medicinal users) that pure THC in pill form doesn't really replicate the effects of using actual cannabis that well. Mainly because there are a variety of different chemicals/cannabinoid at play when cannabis is ingested traditionally, not just one "purest" form of THC in high doses which is what you find in THC pills. Not to say it can't be replicated/refined into pill form correctly, but my guess is it just won't be. I don't think there will be a market for high quality pot-pills large enough to justify the massive investment needed to do it right when a better alternative (natural cannabis) already exists on the market and can be ingested in ways people generally enjoy (vapor, snacks, teas, etc). That is, companies probably aren't going to increase revenues by increasing the quality of a product that already exists because the people who already use THC pills can't be "re-converted", and enough of the people who don't use THC pills, but are in the market for medicinal THC, probably won't make the switch.
- the_watcher 11y agoSure, but that doesn't prevent the basic plant from being distributed and consumed in the way it has for centuries.
- ska 11y agoSame could be said for opium.
- anon4 11y agoJust say "less addictive and with fewer side-effects". No need to have us go through all the levels of indirection, i.e. implications one must think of when you say "plant".
- oafitupa 11y agoBut removing the need for big pharmacological laboratories definitely makes it better. No more ridiculous prices, no more hidden corporate interests, etc. Just you and your plant, like nature "wanted" it to be.
- fsloth 11y agoyou and your plant, like nature "wanted" it to be Most plants would prefer to kill us rather than get us high.
- kjar 11y agoPlants that help humans are propagated by them.
- pstuart 11y agoA nice bit on that: http://www.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire/ http://www.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire/
- oafitupa 11y agoPlants can't "prefer", they are not conscious beings.
- fsloth 11y agoAnd a figure of speech has no shape nor figure :)
- Alex3917 11y ago"when some plants (like opium!) produce the same effects is disingenuous." I'm pretty sure poppy plants didn't evolve to produce massive amounts of Tylenol in order purposely poison people using the plant outside the religious beliefs of the ruling class.
- Quinner 11y agoWut.
- facetube 11y agoMany common opioid formulations contain acetaminophen (paracetamol) in large amounts. If addiction develops, the acetaminophen will be the thing that kills you, via fulminant hepatic failure.
- cuckcuckspruce 11y agoMany drugs containing opiates are mixed with acetaminophen[1] by drug companies to reduce their abuse potential as acetaminophen is very toxic. The thought is that people that would abuse these medicines would think twice. All it really does is kill people[2] to the point where the government puts out information on how to spot someone going through such a poisoning. [1] https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-some-opiates-mixed-with-acetaminophen-for-pain-relief.813967/#post-5109427 https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-some-opiates-mixed... [2] https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002670.htm https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002670.htm
- facetube 11y agoEven worse, acetaminophen has some serious difficulty with water solubility, so the people who really want the APAP out can get it done with no special equipment whatsoever. I wish combination drugs would just go away across the board, in all honesty.
- Spooky23 11y agoI think you're reading into it a little too deeply. The point isn't to chew on a random leaf or avoid medicine. We're in a situation where many people with chronic pain are handed marginally effective, dangerous and highly addictive painkillers, when they could literally grow a more effective and less dangerous pain control medicine in their backyard. I had a severe back problem that led to a spinal fusion at age 25. I don't react well to most of the painkillers, so my only relief from excruciating pain (to the point where rolling over at night would wake me up) was motrin & hot towels. No idea if marijana would have helped me, but if it can help others basic humanity should compel us to legalize it.
- MichaelGG 11y ago"Marginally effective"? How is e.g. oxymorphone or fentanyl only marginally effective? Excruciating pain and you were using ibuprofen? Why not even hydrocodone? Or if you wanted to grow it, grow poppies and extract the opium? Only difference is that weed grows a bit easier and requires a bit less harvesting work. (Not to mention pot seems to dull intelligence; opiates do not.)
- markamweb 11y agoWould love to learn more about how pot "seems to dull intelligence", do you have any sources?
- MichaelGG 11y agoPersonal usage a long time ago, and firsthand experience. I don't mean long-term (maybe, maybe not; irrelevant). I mean at high enough doses to get high or seek pain relief, pot doesn't seem to leave the user with their full intelligence.
- DanBC 11y agoOpiates get misused for a lot of pain when they're not really suitable for that particular type of pain. For many people opiates are marginally effective because they were misprescribed.
- madaxe_again 11y agoUh, although Aspirin is derived from salicylic acid, from the bark of willow trees, so...