5 ms·

Yet an example where Windows (10) Mobile is left out. I think we might have to get used to two monoliths in this market.

afsina 11y ago
Supporting Windows requires a lot of resource allocation and unfortunately their global mobile market share cannot justify it yet (http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp). Microsoft can give a hand though, since it is open source.
pavlov 11y ago
Windows 10 Mobile can run Android apps using "Windows Bridge for Android", a.k.a. Astoria. I've tested it with some simple apps, it works as advertised. The Windows device shows up in Android Studio as if it were a KitKat phone. Since Microsoft has done all that work already, I don't think it makes sense for 3rd party frameworks to bother supporting Windows 10 Mobile separately anymore.
- Eridrus 11y ago
  I doubt this will work for Flutter given the use of the NDK.
pcunite 11y ago
I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. The security issues and user updates with Android are making me consider Windows. If Windows 10 can run Android apps (as rumored), that will be icing on the cake. The thing people need to realize is that Microsoft has been around for 40 years. They're in this for the long haul. Until Microsoft quits, it is not game over.
- 0xFFC 11y ago
  You mentioned my point , Microsoft is too big to fail, in software development term they are bigger than Google and Apple combined . They are one of leaders in gaming industry (which is pure money, even profitable than web). They controlling Windows which dominate whole pc market without even competition(don't get me wrong , I have been on fedora for years and I am on fedora right now, but thats it truth , Microsoft is absolute leader of PC's).And after this new smart CEO they understand what was wrong about their approach and they are fixing it right now. they are pushing cloud as fast as possible. they are dead serious about edge.they are bringing ssh and whole another tools to make windows more developer friendly.They are pushing windows 10 for internet of things more than google pushes android for internet of things.(Because they know it will be a revive for Windows phone) and whole another things. If I were google. I would be very stressed , Nadella's Microsoft is not ordinary company and it is attacking google in every front. Google's biggest mistake was their hesitate to beat windows on desktop(I would say recent news about chrome/android desktop version is related to their analysis from Microsoft approach). We all know it does not matter where goes computing. Desktop will be there ! even for 10 % of users (developers). but desktop will not dead (there is no way , absolutely ).And until desktop is alive , Microsoft is like snake with venom , ready to attack. I am betting on Microsoft ( despite being linux guy ). Microsoft coming back and they compete vigorously , because they have resource , they will win !
  - iSnow 11y ago
    >in software development term they are bigger than Google and Apple combined . I dunno. Since a couple of years, a lot went wrong for them - Websearch (Bing usage must be abysmal) - Webmail - Mobile (I have lost track how many approaches failed over the years) - Web-tech (IE, Silverlight, all the other proprietary extensions) - Media sales (They had something for the Zune thingy, right?) - Web ads - Languages. Java is still around, JS likewise. The whole .NET ecosystem is kind of holding out, but nowhere exploding. - Social web I have a hard time believing their inclusion of SSH in 2015 is making a difference. The whole lot of younger coders I know are either on Mac, on Linux or on ChromeOS. No one wants to do Windows. Powershell is nice, but why learn it if you also work on Unix? The ordinary user or enterprise desktop is their mainstay and I don't see that evaporating fast. Surface is making some inroads into the corporate tablet/laptop (laplet?) market. And their productivity suite seems healthy despite the design choices. But that's it. Apple is eating the smartwatch market, the phone high-end, the tablet high-end, the ultrabook market. Android is slurping up the low-end to high-end phone market. Online productivity suites means Google. Search is Google. Media sales is Amazon/iTunes. Social web is Facebook/Twitter. New languages and frameworks come out of OSS or Google or Mozilla.
    - kriro 11y ago
      I don't run Windows on any of my computers and have been a Linux user since forever but I have to disagree with at least one of the points here. Microsoft is pretty excellent in language development, I don't agree with the "new languages and frameworks come out of OSS or Google or Mozilla". F# would be my prime example. Axum was also pretty interesting. LINQ integration is also pretty interesting etc. etc.
      - insulanian 11y ago
        Yes, languages coming from MS deserve respect. Especially F#.
    - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
      I think your points are woefully behind the times. > Websearch (Bing usage must be abysmal) Nope. In fact Bing usage is really good. 1 in 5 people are searching on Bing (maybe even more if you factor in the multiple companies that use Bing though I'm not sure Yahoo does anymore). http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/technology/bing-usage/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/technology/bing-usage/ > Webmail Office 365 is KILLING it and as part of that ecosystem they have Outlook on the web. I'm not sure what's going wrong for them here. Do you have any data? > Mobile Fair. Unfortunately, in my opinion. > Web-tech Their new browser in Windows 10 is actually really, really good. Silverlight is still one of the best options for streaming video but Microsoft is embracing the web like crazy! They worked on TypeScript, they have a new version Visual Studio that's built on web technologies, you can make universal Windows apps with web technology, their .Net framework constantly works with the latest developments in web tech. Microsoft is hugely in on Web Tech. Have you seen how well their Word, Excel, OneNote, etc work in a web browser? Pretty damn well. > Media sales What does this mean? There is XBox for gaming and music, there is groove for music in general, they have the Surface; are you referring to ONLY MP3 players? Even Apple is quitting that game. > Web ads Fair. No idea what their statistics are on this. > Languages. Java is still around, JS likewise. The whole .NET ecosystem is kind of holding out, but nowhere exploding. You can develop Java in Visual Studio. You can developer practically anything in Visual Studio now, even Objective-C to a degree (well, soon). The .Net platform is simply amazing and when the open sourcing is finished and they start offering their binaries for download there is no reason why it can't get bigger. Java isn't exactly exploding either. Not sure what this criticism is really trying to convey. > Social web Google also sucks at this. Apple too. Everyone but a few players suck at this. Microsoft actually has a decent social presence if you consider XBox Live but beyond that I don't think they have much of anything. > Apple is eating the smartwatch market, the phone high-end, the tablet high-end, the ultrabook market. Android is slurping up the low-end to high-end phone market. Online productivity suites means Google. Search is Google. Media sales is Amazon/iTunes. Social web is Facebook/Twitter. New languages and frameworks come out of OSS or Google or Mozilla. About half of this I disagree with but, even so, you act like it's a "well Google and Apple are winning so...Microsoft, just give up guys". I don't understand the point of your criticisms.
- ocean3 11y ago
  What are these security issues and how to identify them?
- insulanian 11y ago
  > The security issues and user updates with Android are making me consider Windows. The problem is that the average Joe (and that's 90% of people buying phones) doesn't care about security issues and updates. IMO the ship has sailed for Windows Phone. It will remain the third player on mobile, like Linux is on desktop.
prohor 11y ago
Similarly as Ubuntu Phone or FirefoxOS. This is a chicken-egg problem - no one will invest in supporting platforms what has not that big market share. Windows is now probably somewhere on the balance point whether support it or not. In some countries it is popular and then local applications have Windows version. But actually with Windows ability to run Android & iOS apps, it will be less of a problem I guess (http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/29/8511439/microsoft-windows-10-android-ios-apps-bridges http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/29/8511439/microsoft-windows-...)
beagle3 11y ago
Windows 10 is a still an insignificant blip in the phone world. For sure, the two largest ones by far are iOS and Android, and everything else (Windows 10, BlackBerry, Tizen, Sailfish, Ubuntu Phone) is basically crumbs. If anything Windows 10 is a special snowflake in that it does not have an underlying posix-y kernel, which makes it less likely to get anything cross-platform, even if it does get slightly more prevalent than the other crumbs.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Not for those located in countries where iOS is only for the riches. There Windows Phones are the only alternative for those that don't want to get an Android device. Android also doesn't have a proper POSIX kernel, its Linux version is very customized, for example IPC is out. What POSIX stuff (it is just CLI and daemons anyway) can you really use for mobile apps?!
  - beagle3 11y ago
    > What POSIX stuff (it is just CLI and daemons anyway) can you really use for mobile apps?! It's not about POSIX per se - but among the Linux and Unix derived kernels, most of the things are similar. e.g., files are open with an open() syscall, file sharing semantics are mostly the same -- whereas on Windows, you call the differently-behaving OpenFile, and you can't delete or move an open file. Porting infrastructure (e.g. flutter) among POSIX-y kernels is much less work than porting to Win. > There Windows Phones are the only alternative for those that don't want to get an Android device. I thought Firefox phones were another alternative. Aren't they?
enos_feedler 11y ago
Developers will eventually care about Windows 10 as an important native platform when universal apps start to matter. As Apple and Google move in this direction, Microsoft starts to look stronger here with desktop and xbox plays. This happens when app experiences start floating across screens more easily and consumers lock into an ecosystem (for good reasons)
- willhinsa 11y ago
  I'm amazed at how well Microsoft is doing these days.
- Eridrus 11y ago
  I sort of want this to be the case, but I feel like the web won, and that's going to keep making windows 10 a niche platform for things that want to break out of the web model.
- zghst 11y ago
  Just like devs will eventually build apps for Windows 8... While I've some great apps built on the Windows Universal app platform, there really haven't been anything that I've seen that is a must have or the next explosive app. The larger problem is the hacker community's love for their Macs & Linux. Microsoft should just flood the Bay with Surface Books, that might prove more fruitful than giving devs cash

afsina 11y ago

Supporting Windows requires a lot of resource allocation and unfortunately their global mobile market share cannot justify it yet (http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp). Microsoft can give a hand though, since it is open source.

pavlov 11y ago

Windows 10 Mobile can run Android apps using "Windows Bridge for Android", a.k.a. Astoria. I've tested it with some simple apps, it works as advertised. The Windows device shows up in Android Studio as if it were a KitKat phone. Since Microsoft has done all that work already, I don't think it makes sense for 3rd party frameworks to bother supporting Windows 10 Mobile separately anymore.

Eridrus 11y ago
I doubt this will work for Flutter given the use of the NDK.

pcunite 11y ago

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. The security issues and user updates with Android are making me consider Windows. If Windows 10 can run Android apps (as rumored), that will be icing on the cake. The thing people need to realize is that Microsoft has been around for 40 years. They're in this for the long haul. Until Microsoft quits, it is not game over.

0xFFC 11y ago
You mentioned my point , Microsoft is too big to fail, in software development term they are bigger than Google and Apple combined . They are one of leaders in gaming industry (which is pure money, even profitable than web). They controlling Windows which dominate whole pc market without even competition(don't get me wrong , I have been on fedora for years and I am on fedora right now, but thats it truth , Microsoft is absolute leader of PC's).And after this new smart CEO they understand what was wrong about their approach and they are fixing it right now. they are pushing cloud as fast as possible. they are dead serious about edge.they are bringing ssh and whole another tools to make windows more developer friendly.They are pushing windows 10 for internet of things more than google pushes android for internet of things.(Because they know it will be a revive for Windows phone) and whole another things. If I were google. I would be very stressed , Nadella's Microsoft is not ordinary company and it is attacking google in every front. Google's biggest mistake was their hesitate to beat windows on desktop(I would say recent news about chrome/android desktop version is related to their analysis from Microsoft approach). We all know it does not matter where goes computing. Desktop will be there ! even for 10 % of users (developers). but desktop will not dead (there is no way , absolutely ).And until desktop is alive , Microsoft is like snake with venom , ready to attack. I am betting on Microsoft ( despite being linux guy ). Microsoft coming back and they compete vigorously , because they have resource , they will win !
- iSnow 11y ago
  >in software development term they are bigger than Google and Apple combined . I dunno. Since a couple of years, a lot went wrong for them - Websearch (Bing usage must be abysmal) - Webmail - Mobile (I have lost track how many approaches failed over the years) - Web-tech (IE, Silverlight, all the other proprietary extensions) - Media sales (They had something for the Zune thingy, right?) - Web ads - Languages. Java is still around, JS likewise. The whole .NET ecosystem is kind of holding out, but nowhere exploding. - Social web I have a hard time believing their inclusion of SSH in 2015 is making a difference. The whole lot of younger coders I know are either on Mac, on Linux or on ChromeOS. No one wants to do Windows. Powershell is nice, but why learn it if you also work on Unix? The ordinary user or enterprise desktop is their mainstay and I don't see that evaporating fast. Surface is making some inroads into the corporate tablet/laptop (laplet?) market. And their productivity suite seems healthy despite the design choices. But that's it. Apple is eating the smartwatch market, the phone high-end, the tablet high-end, the ultrabook market. Android is slurping up the low-end to high-end phone market. Online productivity suites means Google. Search is Google. Media sales is Amazon/iTunes. Social web is Facebook/Twitter. New languages and frameworks come out of OSS or Google or Mozilla.
  - kriro 11y ago
    I don't run Windows on any of my computers and have been a Linux user since forever but I have to disagree with at least one of the points here. Microsoft is pretty excellent in language development, I don't agree with the "new languages and frameworks come out of OSS or Google or Mozilla". F# would be my prime example. Axum was also pretty interesting. LINQ integration is also pretty interesting etc. etc.
    - insulanian 11y ago
      Yes, languages coming from MS deserve respect. Especially F#.
  - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
    I think your points are woefully behind the times. > Websearch (Bing usage must be abysmal) Nope. In fact Bing usage is really good. 1 in 5 people are searching on Bing (maybe even more if you factor in the multiple companies that use Bing though I'm not sure Yahoo does anymore). http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/technology/bing-usage/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/technology/bing-usage/ > Webmail Office 365 is KILLING it and as part of that ecosystem they have Outlook on the web. I'm not sure what's going wrong for them here. Do you have any data? > Mobile Fair. Unfortunately, in my opinion. > Web-tech Their new browser in Windows 10 is actually really, really good. Silverlight is still one of the best options for streaming video but Microsoft is embracing the web like crazy! They worked on TypeScript, they have a new version Visual Studio that's built on web technologies, you can make universal Windows apps with web technology, their .Net framework constantly works with the latest developments in web tech. Microsoft is hugely in on Web Tech. Have you seen how well their Word, Excel, OneNote, etc work in a web browser? Pretty damn well. > Media sales What does this mean? There is XBox for gaming and music, there is groove for music in general, they have the Surface; are you referring to ONLY MP3 players? Even Apple is quitting that game. > Web ads Fair. No idea what their statistics are on this. > Languages. Java is still around, JS likewise. The whole .NET ecosystem is kind of holding out, but nowhere exploding. You can develop Java in Visual Studio. You can developer practically anything in Visual Studio now, even Objective-C to a degree (well, soon). The .Net platform is simply amazing and when the open sourcing is finished and they start offering their binaries for download there is no reason why it can't get bigger. Java isn't exactly exploding either. Not sure what this criticism is really trying to convey. > Social web Google also sucks at this. Apple too. Everyone but a few players suck at this. Microsoft actually has a decent social presence if you consider XBox Live but beyond that I don't think they have much of anything. > Apple is eating the smartwatch market, the phone high-end, the tablet high-end, the ultrabook market. Android is slurping up the low-end to high-end phone market. Online productivity suites means Google. Search is Google. Media sales is Amazon/iTunes. Social web is Facebook/Twitter. New languages and frameworks come out of OSS or Google or Mozilla. About half of this I disagree with but, even so, you act like it's a "well Google and Apple are winning so...Microsoft, just give up guys". I don't understand the point of your criticisms.
ocean3 11y ago
What are these security issues and how to identify them?
insulanian 11y ago
> The security issues and user updates with Android are making me consider Windows. The problem is that the average Joe (and that's 90% of people buying phones) doesn't care about security issues and updates. IMO the ship has sailed for Windows Phone. It will remain the third player on mobile, like Linux is on desktop.

prohor 11y ago

Similarly as Ubuntu Phone or FirefoxOS. This is a chicken-egg problem - no one will invest in supporting platforms what has not that big market share. Windows is now probably somewhere on the balance point whether support it or not. In some countries it is popular and then local applications have Windows version. But actually with Windows ability to run Android & iOS apps, it will be less of a problem I guess (http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/29/8511439/microsoft-windows-10-android-ios-apps-bridges http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/29/8511439/microsoft-windows-...)

beagle3 11y ago

Windows 10 is a still an insignificant blip in the phone world. For sure, the two largest ones by far are iOS and Android, and everything else (Windows 10, BlackBerry, Tizen, Sailfish, Ubuntu Phone) is basically crumbs. If anything Windows 10 is a special snowflake in that it does not have an underlying posix-y kernel, which makes it less likely to get anything cross-platform, even if it does get slightly more prevalent than the other crumbs.

pjmlp 11y ago
Not for those located in countries where iOS is only for the riches. There Windows Phones are the only alternative for those that don't want to get an Android device. Android also doesn't have a proper POSIX kernel, its Linux version is very customized, for example IPC is out. What POSIX stuff (it is just CLI and daemons anyway) can you really use for mobile apps?!
- beagle3 11y ago
  > What POSIX stuff (it is just CLI and daemons anyway) can you really use for mobile apps?! It's not about POSIX per se - but among the Linux and Unix derived kernels, most of the things are similar. e.g., files are open with an open() syscall, file sharing semantics are mostly the same -- whereas on Windows, you call the differently-behaving OpenFile, and you can't delete or move an open file. Porting infrastructure (e.g. flutter) among POSIX-y kernels is much less work than porting to Win. > There Windows Phones are the only alternative for those that don't want to get an Android device. I thought Firefox phones were another alternative. Aren't they?

enos_feedler 11y ago

Developers will eventually care about Windows 10 as an important native platform when universal apps start to matter. As Apple and Google move in this direction, Microsoft starts to look stronger here with desktop and xbox plays. This happens when app experiences start floating across screens more easily and consumers lock into an ecosystem (for good reasons)

willhinsa 11y ago
I'm amazed at how well Microsoft is doing these days.
Eridrus 11y ago
I sort of want this to be the case, but I feel like the web won, and that's going to keep making windows 10 a niche platform for things that want to break out of the web model.
zghst 11y ago
Just like devs will eventually build apps for Windows 8... While I've some great apps built on the Windows Universal app platform, there really haven't been anything that I've seen that is a must have or the next explosive app. The larger problem is the hacker community's love for their Macs & Linux. Microsoft should just flood the Bay with Surface Books, that might prove more fruitful than giving devs cash