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I used Mint for a long time, but eventually decided I didn't like them having all my bank login information, including security questions. So I switched to a se

I used Mint for a long time, but eventually decided I didn't like them having all my bank login information, including security questions. So I switched to a setup where I download OFX data directly from my banks using a Python script [1], and use Ledger [2] to track spending, balances, etc. A big bonus of this approach is that I have complete control over the data, so if an import get screwed up somehow I can fix it manually. Mint's "black box" approach is good when everything works flawlessly, but you're stuck doing weird hacks if anything goes wrong or you want to do something it wasn't designed for. Ledger, incidentally, is from the same one who is now maintaining Emacs, if I'm not mistaken. [1] http://captin411.github.io/ofxclient/ http://captin411.github.io/ofxclient/ [2] http://www.ledger-cli.org http://www.ledger-cli.org

mey 11y ago
The advantage I see Mint has is they don't require OFX as they appear willing to scrape sites for content.
- shawkinaw 11y ago
  Yeah, but the advantage of OFX is that it is read-only and can use different credentials for authentication (depending on the bank.) Another advantage I forgot to mention is that I couldn't use my bank's 2FA with Mint.
  - theptip 11y ago
    Aahh, I've been moaning for ages that banks should implement a read-only interface for services like Mint; I had no idea that one already existed. I think this is the nail in Mint's coffin for me. Thanks! This does invite the question of why Mint isn't using (or even just offering) OFX read-only credentials... or do they?
    - mey 11y ago
      Not all banks support OFX
sanderjd 11y ago
I have a very similar setup, except using YNAB[0]. I never felt like I really used Mint, besides just going and looking at my balances and (infrequently) thinking, "huh, looks like I'm over-budget again". With this setup, I feel like I'm taking matters into my own hands, which has had a noticeable impact on my spending and planning discipline. Thanks for the link to your project, looks really useful! [0]: https://www.youneedabudget.com/ https://www.youneedabudget.com/
- comrh 11y ago
  YNAB recommends the manual entry of purchases to better understand the relationship between the things you buy and your money. This has helped me be much less impulsive and more aware of the large money sinks in my life (lunch!). Whatever setup works for you to help you budget though, it is great software.
  - sanderjd 11y ago
    Yep! I did that for awhile, and still do it quite often for purchases while I'm out and about at target, grocery stores, restaurants, bars, and coffee shops. But for me, importing dumps from my banks and going through each transaction to "accept" them is plenty enough for that mental jolt. The tedium of entering names, categories, and prices might be a bit more powerful, but just seeing every transaction is (for me) a 99% achievement of the same goal.
- shawkinaw 11y ago
  Yeah. I actually really liked Mint, before it I had no idea where my money was going. But the security stuff started to bug me, and there were mounting frustrations with Mint's inflexibility that finally pushed me to go a different direction. Also, the first link I posted isn't my work, just a nice utility I found. I did roll my own Python for converting OFX to Ledger though, been meaning to clean that up and post it but haven't gotten around to it yet.
  - sanderjd 11y ago
    Yeah, as I looked at that project more, I suspected that I had been wrong in assuming it was your work. In any case, I hadn't seen it, and appreciated the link.
jgalt212 11y ago
> I didn't like them having all my bank login information, including security questions I that's the sort of concerns that did in the start-up greplin. They would have access to all your password protected data for any service under the sun.
pspeter3 11y ago
Do you pay for the OFX access?
- shawkinaw 11y ago
  No, all my banks/CC companies have free access. I think most if not all banks (at least major ones) do, you can check this site [1]. [1] http://www.ofxhome.com/index.php/home/directory http://www.ofxhome.com/index.php/home/directory
  - pspeter3 11y ago
    I get unknown or unsupported for Citibank which is one of the largest banks.
retube 11y ago
It absolutely blows my mind that people are happy to hand over their banking credentials to a third party. I would never in a billion years ever have believed it were possible for a firm to succeed predicated on that basis. I'm pretty sure that doing that in the UK instantly nullifies any protection you have against fraud etc.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  I assure you all hackers in the late 90's were saying the same thing about the online banking concept. Here we simultaneously had all kinds of Internet-related security problems in media plus banks telling us to connect our money to the Internet. (Annoyed Picard meme here)
- jarek 11y ago
  Yeah but you technically also nullify your protection against fraud if you write your PIN on a sticky note or tell it to your partner. The question is whether a bank will use that as an argument, not whether they can. E.g. Barclays: "You must memorise your PIN or password ... Never give them to someone else or let someone else use them, or do anything that would let someone else use them, such as writing them down in a way that might be recognised by someone else, keeping the letter carrying a PIN, or giving someone else access to a device like a mobile phone on which the relevant details are stored." "If you have either deliberately or with gross negligence: • failed to keep your card, PIN, password, PINsentry or mobile PINsentry generated codes, device or equivalent secure, or • failed to tell us as soon as possible that you have lost your card (especially if you think someone else might have been able to ind it) we will not refund any payments made before you tell us that it’s been lost or compromised."

mey 11y ago

The advantage I see Mint has is they don't require OFX as they appear willing to scrape sites for content.

shawkinaw 11y ago
Yeah, but the advantage of OFX is that it is read-only and can use different credentials for authentication (depending on the bank.) Another advantage I forgot to mention is that I couldn't use my bank's 2FA with Mint.
- theptip 11y ago
  Aahh, I've been moaning for ages that banks should implement a read-only interface for services like Mint; I had no idea that one already existed. I think this is the nail in Mint's coffin for me. Thanks! This does invite the question of why Mint isn't using (or even just offering) OFX read-only credentials... or do they?
  - mey 11y ago
    Not all banks support OFX

sanderjd 11y ago

I have a very similar setup, except using YNAB[0]. I never felt like I really used Mint, besides just going and looking at my balances and (infrequently) thinking, "huh, looks like I'm over-budget again". With this setup, I feel like I'm taking matters into my own hands, which has had a noticeable impact on my spending and planning discipline. Thanks for the link to your project, looks really useful! [0]: https://www.youneedabudget.com/ https://www.youneedabudget.com/

comrh 11y ago
YNAB recommends the manual entry of purchases to better understand the relationship between the things you buy and your money. This has helped me be much less impulsive and more aware of the large money sinks in my life (lunch!). Whatever setup works for you to help you budget though, it is great software.
- sanderjd 11y ago
  Yep! I did that for awhile, and still do it quite often for purchases while I'm out and about at target, grocery stores, restaurants, bars, and coffee shops. But for me, importing dumps from my banks and going through each transaction to "accept" them is plenty enough for that mental jolt. The tedium of entering names, categories, and prices might be a bit more powerful, but just seeing every transaction is (for me) a 99% achievement of the same goal.
shawkinaw 11y ago
Yeah. I actually really liked Mint, before it I had no idea where my money was going. But the security stuff started to bug me, and there were mounting frustrations with Mint's inflexibility that finally pushed me to go a different direction. Also, the first link I posted isn't my work, just a nice utility I found. I did roll my own Python for converting OFX to Ledger though, been meaning to clean that up and post it but haven't gotten around to it yet.
- sanderjd 11y ago
  Yeah, as I looked at that project more, I suspected that I had been wrong in assuming it was your work. In any case, I hadn't seen it, and appreciated the link.

jgalt212 11y ago

> I didn't like them having all my bank login information, including security questions I that's the sort of concerns that did in the start-up greplin. They would have access to all your password protected data for any service under the sun.

pspeter3 11y ago

Do you pay for the OFX access?

shawkinaw 11y ago
No, all my banks/CC companies have free access. I think most if not all banks (at least major ones) do, you can check this site [1]. [1] http://www.ofxhome.com/index.php/home/directory http://www.ofxhome.com/index.php/home/directory
- pspeter3 11y ago
  I get unknown or unsupported for Citibank which is one of the largest banks.

retube 11y ago

It absolutely blows my mind that people are happy to hand over their banking credentials to a third party. I would never in a billion years ever have believed it were possible for a firm to succeed predicated on that basis. I'm pretty sure that doing that in the UK instantly nullifies any protection you have against fraud etc.

nickpsecurity 11y ago
I assure you all hackers in the late 90's were saying the same thing about the online banking concept. Here we simultaneously had all kinds of Internet-related security problems in media plus banks telling us to connect our money to the Internet. (Annoyed Picard meme here)
jarek 11y ago
Yeah but you technically also nullify your protection against fraud if you write your PIN on a sticky note or tell it to your partner. The question is whether a bank will use that as an argument, not whether they can. E.g. Barclays: "You must memorise your PIN or password ... Never give them to someone else or let someone else use them, or do anything that would let someone else use them, such as writing them down in a way that might be recognised by someone else, keeping the letter carrying a PIN, or giving someone else access to a device like a mobile phone on which the relevant details are stored." "If you have either deliberately or with gross negligence: • failed to keep your card, PIN, password, PINsentry or mobile PINsentry generated codes, device or equivalent secure, or • failed to tell us as soon as possible that you have lost your card (especially if you think someone else might have been able to ind it) we will not refund any payments made before you tell us that it’s been lost or compromised."