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I think there a couple underlying issues with this line of thinking. The first is the danger, especially considering the rate of technical evolution, of your tr

I think there a couple underlying issues with this line of thinking. The first is the danger, especially considering the rate of technical evolution, of your trade being obsoleted before your retirement. A focused development into one field leaves workers unable to pivot in reaction to changing environments. The second, in my opinion, represents a misunderstanding of why the (likely STEM) college degree has become the defacto gate to employment. Academic curricula, by design, focus far less on skills and masteries that are directly marketable and instead focus on building a foundation in a given field from which students can build on later (in either employment or higher studies and research). In my experience, the first 6 months to two years of many technical jobs is exactly the apprenticeship you're alluding to. However, they are being subsidized by the employer, not the taxpayer. Given the investment being made in new hires, the focus on cheap (from the employer's perspective) general signals to basic competence (like the ability to complete a degree at a university that already invests heavily in selecting for the best candidates) becomes a logical position to take. I say all of these things, but unfortunately can't offer a solution. So long as the risk in a new hire is so one sided, I can't see the situation changing.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
I think your most valid argument is skill obsolescence. Now while I think apprenticeships should be subsidized in some part by the state to incentivize hiring (like the earned income tax credit), I do agree that work alone does not expand one's mind. I come from an academic family (both parents had doctorates and one had a law degree), and I can appreciate the effect education has on one's ability to cross skill boundaries, read between the lines of empty rhetoric, and so on. We already subsidize higher education to a significant degree. Perhaps if we incentivized high school graduates with state-subsidized apprenticeships that build into a tuition account (like social security, or a civilian GI Bill), people can still receive higher education with an assurance that they are a productive member of society in the first place. Sure, it raises the bar for entry if you don't have rich parents, but do we really need more indebted baristas with English degrees?
- lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
  >do we really need more indebted baristas with English degrees? I feel like you're making a value judgement here that isn't entirely fair. The biggest shock to me after graduating (with a degree in Electrical Engineering degree suma cum laude from a top 5 engineering school) is how much a crock of utter shit the much spouted "STEM shortage" was. Not only are there plenty of graduates, the actual duties involved in the over whelming majority of the available jobs could be done by next to anyone. When your indebted baristas are just as qualified for highly lucrative positions like enterprise software engineering it's a cultural problem not an individual problem. As an aside, the smart companies are using this to make bank. I work in enterprise software for a major financial institution and these liberal arts majors are a gold mine. They spend the same amount in training that they would on any fresh hire but, because of lack of opportunities available for humanities graduates, can lock them into lower starting salaries and stricter performance metrics. I feel like it's only a matter before the rest of technology catches up and realizes how much money they are leaving on the table by only hiring people that can code a red-black tree on the white board to develop their CRUD apps and maintain their databases.
brightball 11y ago
That is a very valid point and it puts a real emphasis on skills that will be in demand as long as there are people. Most people don't think much of it but people who cut hair, do HVAC work, plumbing, electrical, washing cars, running funeral homes, etc will be in demand until the thing they work on no longer exists. The only real barrier here is people willing to try to do it themselves to save money but that doesn't create competition so much as just removes a single customer.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

I think your most valid argument is skill obsolescence. Now while I think apprenticeships should be subsidized in some part by the state to incentivize hiring (like the earned income tax credit), I do agree that work alone does not expand one's mind. I come from an academic family (both parents had doctorates and one had a law degree), and I can appreciate the effect education has on one's ability to cross skill boundaries, read between the lines of empty rhetoric, and so on. We already subsidize higher education to a significant degree. Perhaps if we incentivized high school graduates with state-subsidized apprenticeships that build into a tuition account (like social security, or a civilian GI Bill), people can still receive higher education with an assurance that they are a productive member of society in the first place. Sure, it raises the bar for entry if you don't have rich parents, but do we really need more indebted baristas with English degrees?

lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
>do we really need more indebted baristas with English degrees? I feel like you're making a value judgement here that isn't entirely fair. The biggest shock to me after graduating (with a degree in Electrical Engineering degree suma cum laude from a top 5 engineering school) is how much a crock of utter shit the much spouted "STEM shortage" was. Not only are there plenty of graduates, the actual duties involved in the over whelming majority of the available jobs could be done by next to anyone. When your indebted baristas are just as qualified for highly lucrative positions like enterprise software engineering it's a cultural problem not an individual problem. As an aside, the smart companies are using this to make bank. I work in enterprise software for a major financial institution and these liberal arts majors are a gold mine. They spend the same amount in training that they would on any fresh hire but, because of lack of opportunities available for humanities graduates, can lock them into lower starting salaries and stricter performance metrics. I feel like it's only a matter before the rest of technology catches up and realizes how much money they are leaving on the table by only hiring people that can code a red-black tree on the white board to develop their CRUD apps and maintain their databases.

brightball 11y ago

That is a very valid point and it puts a real emphasis on skills that will be in demand as long as there are people. Most people don't think much of it but people who cut hair, do HVAC work, plumbing, electrical, washing cars, running funeral homes, etc will be in demand until the thing they work on no longer exists. The only real barrier here is people willing to try to do it themselves to save money but that doesn't create competition so much as just removes a single customer.