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200 years ago, we're talking about 1815. Universities were largely training schools for clergymen; surgeons were jumped-up barbers: medical doctors were a trade
by cstross 11y ago
200 years ago, we're talking about 1815. Universities were largely training schools for clergymen; surgeons were jumped-up barbers: medical doctors were a trade guild taught by apprenticeship -- only in 1815 in England with the passing of the Apothecaries Act was a requirement introduced for those practicing as doctors without a university degree to be examined for a license. Women were excluded not only from higher education but from education in general (with the exception of a governess or tutor for the daughters of well-to-do families), and the really privileged didn't bother with university at all -- that was for younger sons, the eldest (inheriting) sons went to Eton or Harrow then into the House of Lords.
The great flowering of universities as colleges of liberal arts -- and of scientific research in general -- happened a lot later, generally in the 1870-1970 period.
History is another planet, populated by fascinating aliens.
- mc32 11y agoAnd so you see how easily this novelist fell for a romantic vision of liberal arts which enrich us all and free us of mental shackles and deliver us to the "promise" land of enlightened beings.
- cstross 11y agoSpeaking as a novelist myself, I think she's exactly right. (And yes, I have a CS degree. Oddly, it didn't teach me anything useful about participation in civic life or how to understand the ethical implications of a proposed course of action.)
- mc32 11y agoThat is great. It's nice that people can be successful in a liberal arts career. I applaud it, but I don't think we should try to emphasize it when people are simply looking for a way to make a living. Sure, emphasize it in K-12, but don't structure it as a career path. Rather something which supplements a path to career.
- ska 11y agoThere is a difference between a "liberal arts career" and a "liberal arts education". Arguably the latter is exactly what you describe (supplementing).
- soneca 11y agoThanks, nice comment. I used the "200 years" loosely, and I was thinking more about my country (Brazil). Here the first college was founded in 1827 (a law school) and was completely top-elite focused; basically a politician/ruling class training school. History is a lot of planets, populated by diverse aliens.