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>I don't care about my data being stored in the US Because uninformed consent is not consent and most people do not give informed consent to their data being s

>I don't care about my data being stored in the US Because uninformed consent is not consent and most people do not give informed consent to their data being stored overseas as they are not aware of all the laws and regulations that apply to it. Unless we do want to say that uninformed consent is still consent, but what kind of problems does that create?

marcoperaza 11y ago
Caveat emptor.
- wfo 11y ago
  Is a shining example of a failed economic principle which has caused unmitigated disaster whenever it is employed and is immediately rolled back by any group of human beings who care at all about what's good for anyone in the group.
  - patrickaljord 11y ago
    Not so true. With the internet it's easier to learn about the reputation of a vendor, so much so that many vendors are confident enough to offer return policies that go beyond what the law requires and most people rely more on these reviews than whatever refund policy vendors offer anyway.
    - wfo 11y ago
      I'm sure that you will be greatly comforted by a return policy or the fact that a company had to spend a few dollars to hire an Internet PR consulting firm or buy off yelp to smooth over any temporary loss in brand loyalty that occurs when they, say, don't properly care for their meat and people die from eating it. Or when they put poison in their children's toys because it's cheaper to make them that way and kids die. It as a method generally works when consumers are aware of all of their options, do their research and stay informed about every single economic purchase they make throughout every moment of their lives, and the consequences of a bad choice are not serious. So nowhere in the real world. And it's not so horrible when the choices don't matter: when none of them are harmful, and we're simply deciding based on quality. It's still bad, but we tolerate it because nobody dies from it.
      - patrickaljord 11y ago
        You're implying that businesses only care about absolute profit with absolute no care for the customer experience whatsoever to the point of poisoning their kids and killing them on the spot. You either have never run a business or must be a horrible business person.
        wfo 11y ago
        I'm implying that businesses do what is most profitable. If a certain business leader has an inconvenient moral compass they will, eventually be replaced or undercut by those willing to get their hands dirty. This is unfettered 'caveat emptor' capitalism. I'm not advocating it or saying it's good (the opposite, rather). But you are acting like this is some mustache-twirling unrealistic liberal fantasy of an evil business person who does this -- not so. This happens ALL THE TIME in real life. People build cars that explode because it's too expensive to build them correctly. The poison on kids toys is not something I invented it is literally a real example from a number of years ago. This behavior is the inevitable consequence of 'caveat emptor' -- thank god we don't employ this awful principle anymore. In a relationship, it's important to keep the power and the culpability/responsibility divvied up in equal proportions. If you're the powerful one in the relationship, you're also the responsible one. When you are a consumer you have zero power and zero information. You are a consumer of so many things coming from so many different industries you cannot be informed about them. You cannot become an expert on the toilet paper industry, you can simply watch ads and go to the store and pick based on garbage information fed to you by PR firms. Compared to the company selling it, staffed with hundreds of experts who live and breathe the toilet paper industry you are an infant. If they use this asymmetry to abuse or exploit you the culpability lies with THEM not with you. Caveat vendor.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  But we aren't talking about just buying something, but consenting to the partial sell of your own information. Think of it like a child not being allowed to sell some object of great value they posses without parental approval because of how easily they can be misled about its value and uses.
patrickaljord 11y ago
What would you consider informed content? Is specifying in the T&C that your data will travel worldwide enough? Should you get an email everytime your data is stored abroad or if you have a friend in Russia and he wants to see your profile, should he get very slow page load because data can't be replicated in Russia? That sounds like turning user experience into a horrible mess to me. Surprised people on HN would advocate that.

marcoperaza 11y ago

Caveat emptor.

wfo 11y ago
Is a shining example of a failed economic principle which has caused unmitigated disaster whenever it is employed and is immediately rolled back by any group of human beings who care at all about what's good for anyone in the group.
- patrickaljord 11y ago
  Not so true. With the internet it's easier to learn about the reputation of a vendor, so much so that many vendors are confident enough to offer return policies that go beyond what the law requires and most people rely more on these reviews than whatever refund policy vendors offer anyway.
  - wfo 11y ago
    I'm sure that you will be greatly comforted by a return policy or the fact that a company had to spend a few dollars to hire an Internet PR consulting firm or buy off yelp to smooth over any temporary loss in brand loyalty that occurs when they, say, don't properly care for their meat and people die from eating it. Or when they put poison in their children's toys because it's cheaper to make them that way and kids die. It as a method generally works when consumers are aware of all of their options, do their research and stay informed about every single economic purchase they make throughout every moment of their lives, and the consequences of a bad choice are not serious. So nowhere in the real world. And it's not so horrible when the choices don't matter: when none of them are harmful, and we're simply deciding based on quality. It's still bad, but we tolerate it because nobody dies from it.
    - patrickaljord 11y ago
      You're implying that businesses only care about absolute profit with absolute no care for the customer experience whatsoever to the point of poisoning their kids and killing them on the spot. You either have never run a business or must be a horrible business person.
      - wfo 11y ago
        I'm implying that businesses do what is most profitable. If a certain business leader has an inconvenient moral compass they will, eventually be replaced or undercut by those willing to get their hands dirty. This is unfettered 'caveat emptor' capitalism. I'm not advocating it or saying it's good (the opposite, rather). But you are acting like this is some mustache-twirling unrealistic liberal fantasy of an evil business person who does this -- not so. This happens ALL THE TIME in real life. People build cars that explode because it's too expensive to build them correctly. The poison on kids toys is not something I invented it is literally a real example from a number of years ago. This behavior is the inevitable consequence of 'caveat emptor' -- thank god we don't employ this awful principle anymore. In a relationship, it's important to keep the power and the culpability/responsibility divvied up in equal proportions. If you're the powerful one in the relationship, you're also the responsible one. When you are a consumer you have zero power and zero information. You are a consumer of so many things coming from so many different industries you cannot be informed about them. You cannot become an expert on the toilet paper industry, you can simply watch ads and go to the store and pick based on garbage information fed to you by PR firms. Compared to the company selling it, staffed with hundreds of experts who live and breathe the toilet paper industry you are an infant. If they use this asymmetry to abuse or exploit you the culpability lies with THEM not with you. Caveat vendor.
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
But we aren't talking about just buying something, but consenting to the partial sell of your own information. Think of it like a child not being allowed to sell some object of great value they posses without parental approval because of how easily they can be misled about its value and uses.

patrickaljord 11y ago

What would you consider informed content? Is specifying in the T&C that your data will travel worldwide enough? Should you get an email everytime your data is stored abroad or if you have a friend in Russia and he wants to see your profile, should he get very slow page load because data can't be replicated in Russia? That sounds like turning user experience into a horrible mess to me. Surprised people on HN would advocate that.