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I can assure you that the "bellhead" v. "IP-Everywhere" battles still exist. As recently as 2 years ago, international telecom exists were lamenting the prolif

I can assure you that the "bellhead" v. "IP-Everywhere" battles still exist. As recently as 2 years ago, international telecom exists were lamenting the proliferation of wifi - arguing that local LTE is more efficient than wifi; and handsets should use local LTE base stations instead of wifi. Be very afraid of this - telcos will take action to make their delivery mechanisms metered and rated.

asn0 11y ago
"The Rise of the Stupid Network" (1997) is the quintessential essay on this topic, and unfortunately still relevant today. http://www.isen.com/stupid.html http://www.isen.com/stupid.html
- DarkLinkXXXX 11y ago
  In case anyone wants it, I created an epub of it. https://r.kyaa.sg/vknoez.epub https://r.kyaa.sg/vknoez.epub
gkfasdfasdf 11y ago
> arguing that local LTE is more efficient than wifi; and handsets should use local LTE base stations instead of wifi. Interesting, I do exactly this. In parts of my home the Verizon coverage is more reliable than my own wifi.
- tnorthcutt 11y ago
  > In parts of my home the Verizon coverage is more reliable than my own wifi. This is fixable.
  - gkfasdfasdf 11y ago
    Of course it is, but when I have great coverage already why bother? Also it can be a pita to fix.
  - aidenn0 11y ago
    I just wish there was some sort of automated handover for APs on the same subnet. I had the same problem as GP, bu I now have two APs connected to my LAN over powerline, but I have to manually switch them over when I go from one side of the house to the other.
    - noselasd 11y ago
      If you set the same SSID, encryption scheme and password on your 2 APs, your devices should roam automatically between them. Though some devices do this more intelligent than others, and if your devices and APs both support 802.11r and 802.11k, you're even better off.
      - aidenn0 11y ago
        Will this work even if both APs choose the same channel? (In both cases the APs get stronger signals from other networks than from each other, so it's a realistic possibility).
        noselasd 11y ago
        It's your device that roam, it'll chose the AP with the stronger signal, regardless of channel as long as the other parameters match. The APs arn't coordinated, unless you use a controller based setup(which is more an feature of enterprise APs.)
      - wyldfire 11y ago
        Are 802.11r/k branded somehow? Sometimes spec sheets omit these kind of features. Is there a way to see if the feature's enabled from the NIC's host?
    - projct 11y ago
      There is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system
      - 11y ago
upofadown 11y ago
Viewed from this prospective then interference would be a feature, not a bug. Degrading WiFi would result in the use of less WiFi.
- makomk 11y ago
  Yeah, and users can't even run their own LTE-U base stations because - last I heard - it requires signalling on the licensed LTE frequencies to tell the end device to use the unlicensed LTE-U band for data. So if they make 5.8GHz unusable for anything except LTE-U, users will effectively have to pay the mobile telcos to run their own 5.8GHz access points on their own wired internet connections.
paulojreis 11y ago
I have a very hard time conceiving an at-least-legally-legitimate business as evil as telcos. Banks, insurance, finance, those generally are perceived as devil spawn, but I really can't imagine another business with such mediocrity, such an ingrained disregard for the customer.
- hammock 11y ago
  The VA (veteran's affairs)
  - paulojreis 11y ago
    That's really not a thing in my country (Portugal), although we do have quite a few veterans from our lovely`colonialist wars [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War
wmf 11y ago
LTE probably is more efficient (due to OFDMA vs. CSMA) and I'd be happy for my phone to use femtocells instead of Wi-Fi... as long as the femtos are free and don't stomp on anything. But we shouldn't allow some kind of "protocol Darwinism", especially if it exclusively benefits one particular industry.
aidenn0 11y ago
Indeed, my dad got called a "Circuit switch bigot" by Vint Cerf just a few years ago.

asn0 11y ago

"The Rise of the Stupid Network" (1997) is the quintessential essay on this topic, and unfortunately still relevant today. http://www.isen.com/stupid.html http://www.isen.com/stupid.html

DarkLinkXXXX 11y ago
In case anyone wants it, I created an epub of it. https://r.kyaa.sg/vknoez.epub https://r.kyaa.sg/vknoez.epub

gkfasdfasdf 11y ago

> arguing that local LTE is more efficient than wifi; and handsets should use local LTE base stations instead of wifi. Interesting, I do exactly this. In parts of my home the Verizon coverage is more reliable than my own wifi.

tnorthcutt 11y ago
> In parts of my home the Verizon coverage is more reliable than my own wifi. This is fixable.
- gkfasdfasdf 11y ago
  Of course it is, but when I have great coverage already why bother? Also it can be a pita to fix.
- aidenn0 11y ago
  I just wish there was some sort of automated handover for APs on the same subnet. I had the same problem as GP, bu I now have two APs connected to my LAN over powerline, but I have to manually switch them over when I go from one side of the house to the other.
  - noselasd 11y ago
    If you set the same SSID, encryption scheme and password on your 2 APs, your devices should roam automatically between them. Though some devices do this more intelligent than others, and if your devices and APs both support 802.11r and 802.11k, you're even better off.
    - aidenn0 11y ago
      Will this work even if both APs choose the same channel? (In both cases the APs get stronger signals from other networks than from each other, so it's a realistic possibility).
      - noselasd 11y ago
        It's your device that roam, it'll chose the AP with the stronger signal, regardless of channel as long as the other parameters match. The APs arn't coordinated, unless you use a controller based setup(which is more an feature of enterprise APs.)
    - wyldfire 11y ago
      Are 802.11r/k branded somehow? Sometimes spec sheets omit these kind of features. Is there a way to see if the feature's enabled from the NIC's host?
  - projct 11y ago
    There is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system
    - 11y ago

upofadown 11y ago

Viewed from this prospective then interference would be a feature, not a bug. Degrading WiFi would result in the use of less WiFi.

makomk 11y ago
Yeah, and users can't even run their own LTE-U base stations because - last I heard - it requires signalling on the licensed LTE frequencies to tell the end device to use the unlicensed LTE-U band for data. So if they make 5.8GHz unusable for anything except LTE-U, users will effectively have to pay the mobile telcos to run their own 5.8GHz access points on their own wired internet connections.

paulojreis 11y ago

I have a very hard time conceiving an at-least-legally-legitimate business as evil as telcos. Banks, insurance, finance, those generally are perceived as devil spawn, but I really can't imagine another business with such mediocrity, such an ingrained disregard for the customer.

hammock 11y ago
The VA (veteran's affairs)
- paulojreis 11y ago
  That's really not a thing in my country (Portugal), although we do have quite a few veterans from our lovely`colonialist wars [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War

wmf 11y ago

LTE probably is more efficient (due to OFDMA vs. CSMA) and I'd be happy for my phone to use femtocells instead of Wi-Fi... as long as the femtos are free and don't stomp on anything. But we shouldn't allow some kind of "protocol Darwinism", especially if it exclusively benefits one particular industry.

aidenn0 11y ago

Indeed, my dad got called a "Circuit switch bigot" by Vint Cerf just a few years ago.