6 ms·

I know this is purely subjective, but personally I genuinely haven't found a bourbon I like, while I love plenty of single malts (not just from Scotland but als

by corin_ 11y ago

I know this is purely subjective, but personally I genuinely haven't found a bourbon I like, while I love plenty of single malts (not just from Scotland but also Irish/Japanese). Maybe someday that'll change for me or maybe I'm just destined to not be a fan of Bourbons - I have plenty of friends who love them. Haven't tried Tennessee. (But as a Brit I completely approve of your joking, too)

freehunter 11y ago
It's a different flavor. Sweet, instead of smoky. It's completely okay in my opinion to like scotch and not bourbon, or the other way around. I like scotch, but I prefer bourbon. The smoky flavor turns me off a bit. Everyone has a personal choice, but I'm of the opinion that if you don't like Maker's Mark, you probably won't like bourbon.
- GordonS 11y ago
  Only Islay malts are typically smokey, and it is certainly an acquired taste. Malts from other regions of Scotland vary a lot, and as a point of interest, many are matured in bourbon casks because it imparts sweet notes.
  - br3w5 11y ago
    I tried an Islay malt recently (https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/caol-ila-12-year-old-whisky/ https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/caol-ila-12-year-old-w...) that was matured in bourbon casks which softened the smoky flavour somewhat - very nice
    - GordonS 11y ago
      Caol Ila is probably the 'lightest' of all the peaty Islay malts (from memory, I think it proclaims this on the bottle too).
      - br3w5 11y ago
        Yes it's certainly lighter than others I've tasted (Laphroaig and Lagavulin). I do like the smoky taste - what smaller distilleries are there that are heavier on the smoky taste?
        corin_ 11y ago
        I'd recommend Ardbeg. I also love Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, which can be a bit sweeter but still quite smokey.
  - wil421 11y ago
    Got a bottle of Laphroaig Quarter Cask as a house warming gift and it was very interesting. The most smokey and peaty drink I have tried. Very good and unique.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    They're virtually all matured in bourbon or wine/sherry casks, and more in bourbon casks than any other kind of cask. If you ask at the distilleries, they'll tell you it's because the bourbon casks are simply cheaper. Scotch generally doesn't age in new oak. But all bourbon does, by law. So there's a pipeline of used barrels for Scottish distilleries to use. If you get a chance to try to Woodford Reserve new/old wood rye sample, you'll see why Scots use our barrels: the first aging in whiskey in a new barrel extracts huge phenolic flavors. Those woody flavors would compete with Scotch, especially since Scotch generally ages much longer than bourbon. Meanwhile, sherry barrels are much more expensive and contribute their own distinctive flavors. So bourbon casks are they way you go when you want a neutral aging environment. I was moved to nerd out about this because you suggested Scotch is aged in ex-bourbon casks because of the sweet notes they impart. I don't think this is true. I am a fiend for ex-sherry Scotch, and the sweetness generated by an ex-sherry casks is usually unmistakable, club-you-over-the-head powerful. You'll notice that lots of Scotch releases make a big deal out of the wine casks they age in --- what kind of sherry, what age the barrel --- but few ex-bourbon Scotches will say anything but "aged in bourbon casks". That's because bourbon casks are boring. :)
    - ahh 11y ago
      I too like sherry-cask scotch--which are your favorite expressions? (Also, good lord, thank you for tilting at this windmill...Really blocked on Stockfighter?)
      - tptacek 11y ago
        Bottles I've really liked: Dailuane, GlenDronach, Aberlour (single sherry cask), Mortlach, Craigellachie. I had a sherried Highland Park that I liked somewhat, but smoke and sherry don't go well together for me. I want to like Balvenie more than I do, if only because they're so fussy about barrels. Also from what I understand a more end-to-end vertically integrated operation than most of the other distilleries, which share malt processors and other inputs through their corporate ownership. The Dailuane is, I think, mediocre as a whisky, but possibly the most drinkable carrier for sherry flavor on my shelf. I run out of and re-buy Dailuane and GlenDronach more than anything else. I am just a major dork about liquor is all.
jofer 11y ago
The problem with Tennessee Whiskey is that the style is almost extinct. Until recently, in the TN state constitution, only three counties were allowed to have distilleries. Therefore, we have Jack Daniels (which is honestly awful), Dickle (which is quite good, i.m.o., and #12 is a good example of TN whiskey, albeit cheap), and the other county had no active distilleries. Now there are a couple of others on the market, which are very good, but a touch pricey for what they are. In practice, most TN whiskey is home distilled, and not barrel-aged. (and also, never sold) Instead, you "char" the whiskey by putting charred birch, maple, or oak sticks inside a bottle and then aging for a relatively short time. Commercially-produced TN whiskey is always barrel aged, though. Process-wise, the key difference is charcoal filtering before aging (Search for "Lincon County Process"). Taste-wise, it varies, but TN whiskey is usually less sweet than bourbon. It's still corn whiskey, so it's relatively sweet and has a hint of that distinct sour mash taste. However, I've never had one that's as "sticky-sweet" as Makers Mark, Woodford Reserve, Four Roses, or the other really sweet bourbons.
hodwik 11y ago
Try a Buffalo Trace antique collection and you'll see why bourbon is a respected spirit among connoisseurs. The problem is, making real bourbon is very difficult because you have to let so much evaporate off that producers lose a lot of product. E.g. 84% of the Buffalo Trace 2015 George T. Stagg evaporated off. That's a lot of lost product -- so they're opening these 53 gallon barrels and pulling out about 8 gallons of product. Producers don't like those numbers, but that's how you make real bourbon. So it leaves most people thinking they dislike Bourbon before ever having drank a real classic bourbon. By comparison, Scotch is a very simple, cloying beverage. Scotch's complexity all comes from the peat, it's all show. If you pour enough peat in any whiskey it will taste roughly like Lagavulin. Bourbon is a more honest beverage, you're not covering anything up, which means a bad Bourbon is very bad and a good Bourbon is very, very good. Scotch is the IPA of whiskey. It's criminal if you ask me.
- tptacek 11y ago
  Scotch's complexity all comes from the peat, it's all show This isn't even close to true; the entire Speyside region (which produces more Scotch, and more popular Scotch, than any other region) refutes it --- most Speysides have little if any peat.
  - tedunangst 11y ago
    No True Scotch has only a little peat.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      The guidelines don't prohibit that horrible pun, but I'm going to lobby to see that they do in the future, so none of us will have to suffer like this again.
      - rsync 11y ago
        Some folks advocate for a collapse-comments feature on HN. I would like to advocate for a explode-to-frontpage comments feature ... so we could have a new front page item for "that great scotch vs. bourbon argument we had in the TPP comments". It's why I come here.
CuriousSkeptic 11y ago
Not being a bourbon fan either I once, randomly, picked up a bottle of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanton%27s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanton%27s as a gift (mostly due to the little horse guy on top). Was rather pleasantly surprised when I got to taste it later. Maybe you'll find it to Your liking too.
jobu 11y ago
Blantons is worth trying if you've never had it: https://www.blantonsbourbon.com/original_single_barrel https://www.blantonsbourbon.com/original_single_barrel Also, it's not Bourbon or single malt, but Templeton Rye is one of my favorite whiskeys (and reasonably priced): http://www.templetonrye.com/ http://www.templetonrye.com/
- tptacek 11y ago
  Templeton Rye is Midwest Grain Products commodity rye with flavorants added. They recently lost a lawsuit over it! I'm not going to say it's bad (I used to drink it too), but you can (a) do better than MGPI rye at the same price point and (b) do better for relabeled MGPI. Bulleit Rye, Dickel Rye, Redemption, Whistlepig, High West --- there's like 100 more, but those are the big names --- are all MGPI. You can buy whichever's cheapest; of the MGPIs, Templeton is the one I'd avoid, now that they've confirmed that they're not only quietly relabeling MGP, but also adulterating it.
  - jobu 11y ago
    Thanks for the tip. I knew a number of "craft" whiskeys were from MGP, but I didn't realize that Templeton was as well - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_Rye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_Rye Now I'm really curious about the "alcohol flavoring agent" from Clarendon Flavor Engineers. I've had Bulleit Rye and High West as well and did not enjoy them.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Two really good off-the-beaten-path ryes: Old Potrero (a high-proof "single malt" rye from San Francisco) and Few, a craft distillate from Chicago.

by corin_ 11y ago

freehunter 11y ago

It's a different flavor. Sweet, instead of smoky. It's completely okay in my opinion to like scotch and not bourbon, or the other way around. I like scotch, but I prefer bourbon. The smoky flavor turns me off a bit. Everyone has a personal choice, but I'm of the opinion that if you don't like Maker's Mark, you probably won't like bourbon.

GordonS 11y ago
Only Islay malts are typically smokey, and it is certainly an acquired taste. Malts from other regions of Scotland vary a lot, and as a point of interest, many are matured in bourbon casks because it imparts sweet notes.
- br3w5 11y ago
  I tried an Islay malt recently (https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/caol-ila-12-year-old-whisky/ https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/caol-ila-12-year-old-w...) that was matured in bourbon casks which softened the smoky flavour somewhat - very nice
  - GordonS 11y ago
    Caol Ila is probably the 'lightest' of all the peaty Islay malts (from memory, I think it proclaims this on the bottle too).
    - br3w5 11y ago
      Yes it's certainly lighter than others I've tasted (Laphroaig and Lagavulin). I do like the smoky taste - what smaller distilleries are there that are heavier on the smoky taste?
      - corin_ 11y ago
        I'd recommend Ardbeg. I also love Talisker, from the Isle of Skye, which can be a bit sweeter but still quite smokey.
- wil421 11y ago
  Got a bottle of Laphroaig Quarter Cask as a house warming gift and it was very interesting. The most smokey and peaty drink I have tried. Very good and unique.
- tptacek 11y ago
  They're virtually all matured in bourbon or wine/sherry casks, and more in bourbon casks than any other kind of cask. If you ask at the distilleries, they'll tell you it's because the bourbon casks are simply cheaper. Scotch generally doesn't age in new oak. But all bourbon does, by law. So there's a pipeline of used barrels for Scottish distilleries to use. If you get a chance to try to Woodford Reserve new/old wood rye sample, you'll see why Scots use our barrels: the first aging in whiskey in a new barrel extracts huge phenolic flavors. Those woody flavors would compete with Scotch, especially since Scotch generally ages much longer than bourbon. Meanwhile, sherry barrels are much more expensive and contribute their own distinctive flavors. So bourbon casks are they way you go when you want a neutral aging environment. I was moved to nerd out about this because you suggested Scotch is aged in ex-bourbon casks because of the sweet notes they impart. I don't think this is true. I am a fiend for ex-sherry Scotch, and the sweetness generated by an ex-sherry casks is usually unmistakable, club-you-over-the-head powerful. You'll notice that lots of Scotch releases make a big deal out of the wine casks they age in --- what kind of sherry, what age the barrel --- but few ex-bourbon Scotches will say anything but "aged in bourbon casks". That's because bourbon casks are boring. :)
  - ahh 11y ago
    I too like sherry-cask scotch--which are your favorite expressions? (Also, good lord, thank you for tilting at this windmill...Really blocked on Stockfighter?)
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Bottles I've really liked: Dailuane, GlenDronach, Aberlour (single sherry cask), Mortlach, Craigellachie. I had a sherried Highland Park that I liked somewhat, but smoke and sherry don't go well together for me. I want to like Balvenie more than I do, if only because they're so fussy about barrels. Also from what I understand a more end-to-end vertically integrated operation than most of the other distilleries, which share malt processors and other inputs through their corporate ownership. The Dailuane is, I think, mediocre as a whisky, but possibly the most drinkable carrier for sherry flavor on my shelf. I run out of and re-buy Dailuane and GlenDronach more than anything else. I am just a major dork about liquor is all.

jofer 11y ago

The problem with Tennessee Whiskey is that the style is almost extinct. Until recently, in the TN state constitution, only three counties were allowed to have distilleries. Therefore, we have Jack Daniels (which is honestly awful), Dickle (which is quite good, i.m.o., and #12 is a good example of TN whiskey, albeit cheap), and the other county had no active distilleries. Now there are a couple of others on the market, which are very good, but a touch pricey for what they are. In practice, most TN whiskey is home distilled, and not barrel-aged. (and also, never sold) Instead, you "char" the whiskey by putting charred birch, maple, or oak sticks inside a bottle and then aging for a relatively short time. Commercially-produced TN whiskey is always barrel aged, though. Process-wise, the key difference is charcoal filtering before aging (Search for "Lincon County Process"). Taste-wise, it varies, but TN whiskey is usually less sweet than bourbon. It's still corn whiskey, so it's relatively sweet and has a hint of that distinct sour mash taste. However, I've never had one that's as "sticky-sweet" as Makers Mark, Woodford Reserve, Four Roses, or the other really sweet bourbons.

hodwik 11y ago

Try a Buffalo Trace antique collection and you'll see why bourbon is a respected spirit among connoisseurs. The problem is, making real bourbon is very difficult because you have to let so much evaporate off that producers lose a lot of product. E.g. 84% of the Buffalo Trace 2015 George T. Stagg evaporated off. That's a lot of lost product -- so they're opening these 53 gallon barrels and pulling out about 8 gallons of product. Producers don't like those numbers, but that's how you make real bourbon. So it leaves most people thinking they dislike Bourbon before ever having drank a real classic bourbon. By comparison, Scotch is a very simple, cloying beverage. Scotch's complexity all comes from the peat, it's all show. If you pour enough peat in any whiskey it will taste roughly like Lagavulin. Bourbon is a more honest beverage, you're not covering anything up, which means a bad Bourbon is very bad and a good Bourbon is very, very good. Scotch is the IPA of whiskey. It's criminal if you ask me.

tptacek 11y ago
Scotch's complexity all comes from the peat, it's all show This isn't even close to true; the entire Speyside region (which produces more Scotch, and more popular Scotch, than any other region) refutes it --- most Speysides have little if any peat.
- tedunangst 11y ago
  No True Scotch has only a little peat.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    The guidelines don't prohibit that horrible pun, but I'm going to lobby to see that they do in the future, so none of us will have to suffer like this again.
    - rsync 11y ago
      Some folks advocate for a collapse-comments feature on HN. I would like to advocate for a explode-to-frontpage comments feature ... so we could have a new front page item for "that great scotch vs. bourbon argument we had in the TPP comments". It's why I come here.

CuriousSkeptic 11y ago

Not being a bourbon fan either I once, randomly, picked up a bottle of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanton%27s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanton%27s as a gift (mostly due to the little horse guy on top). Was rather pleasantly surprised when I got to taste it later. Maybe you'll find it to Your liking too.

jobu 11y ago

Blantons is worth trying if you've never had it: https://www.blantonsbourbon.com/original_single_barrel https://www.blantonsbourbon.com/original_single_barrel Also, it's not Bourbon or single malt, but Templeton Rye is one of my favorite whiskeys (and reasonably priced): http://www.templetonrye.com/ http://www.templetonrye.com/

tptacek 11y ago
Templeton Rye is Midwest Grain Products commodity rye with flavorants added. They recently lost a lawsuit over it! I'm not going to say it's bad (I used to drink it too), but you can (a) do better than MGPI rye at the same price point and (b) do better for relabeled MGPI. Bulleit Rye, Dickel Rye, Redemption, Whistlepig, High West --- there's like 100 more, but those are the big names --- are all MGPI. You can buy whichever's cheapest; of the MGPIs, Templeton is the one I'd avoid, now that they've confirmed that they're not only quietly relabeling MGP, but also adulterating it.
- jobu 11y ago
  Thanks for the tip. I knew a number of "craft" whiskeys were from MGP, but I didn't realize that Templeton was as well - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_Rye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_Rye Now I'm really curious about the "alcohol flavoring agent" from Clarendon Flavor Engineers. I've had Bulleit Rye and High West as well and did not enjoy them.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Two really good off-the-beaten-path ryes: Old Potrero (a high-proof "single malt" rye from San Francisco) and Few, a craft distillate from Chicago.