14 ms·

I found my father living on the street

244 points by Turukawa 11y ago

nekgrim 11y ago
Beautiful story. Not very relative to HN I think, but it's good to see the world throught other points of view, sometimes. Thanks for this post.
- Turukawa 11y ago
  There's an idea by the writer, almost lost in the article, that I thought is brilliant: "When he was in hospital without any documents or ID I came up with the idea of medical bracelets for homeless people. I bought about 100 waterproof USB wristbands which can hold important information and I've given away about 60 so far." There are any number of people made homeless through mental illness. They are often lost in the system when they become critically ill, and such an identifier would help medical professionals to reunite these people with their families.
  - draven 11y ago
    I was about to comment about the same thing, it's really brilliant since the medical professionals could also access their medical history in case they land up at a hospital, so that could potentially save lives for a few dollars.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    Couldn't the same thing be done by a wristband with just a shortened weblink. The advantage is you could update the website and the link could be engraved on the wristband.
    - reacweb 11y ago
      tatoo a url ;-)
      - danieltillett 11y ago
        Well not to Godwin the thread I think that might be taking things a bit too far.
        viewer5 11y ago
        You're Godwinning it pretty hard. Do you have a more lucid and less Godwinny argument than "well, Hitler!" ?
        DanBC 11y ago
        The government tattooing people who have an illness that increases paranoia seems sub-optimal. You'd definitely have people cutting the tattoos off.
      - junto 11y ago
        Surely a tatooed QR code would be the modern day equivalent!
    - austinjp 11y ago
      My thoughts exactly. Also, less to go wrong with engraved metal vs USB bracelet.
    - arethuza 11y ago
      I'd have thought a wristband would be too easy to damage/remove - especially if they become indicators of people in that kind of situation. Similarly I think things like tattoos or embedded chips are spectacularly bad ideas - for all manner of reasons. Maybe retina scans or something like that?
      - danieltillett 11y ago
        You could make the wristband hard to accidentally remove, but if it is made out of a decent metal and engraved then it would not be hard to ensure that it survived. Something like this needs to be voluntary - we really don’t want to be forcing vulnerable people to start wearing something they don’t want to.
  - greggman 11y ago
    I applaud your effort. Sticking a usb anything of unknown origin into a most computers is not a good idea tho
  - kweks 11y ago
    I work with homeless people, people in precarious situations, people without ID, immigrants without papers, etc. I've discussed this very concept multiple times, from multiple angles, with a few organisations. This issue becomes a real issue of when the person becomes gravely ill, or dies. Most of the time, it's impossible to trace the person's history - contacting next of kin, working out their path until their demise. This is a real problem to solve. However, the practical aspects are that this device needs to be non-identifying, and needs also to be non-exploitable by third parties (in particular: police). Many people without papers are already in a situation that's difficult enough as it is, but this would be made even more difficult by giving police / other authorities a tool to trace, track, and punish. Likewise, many people in these situations do not WANT to be found, or do not WANT to carry papers. The conclusion that I had come to would be that these devices are completely encrypted, and provide no form of external data (ID, etc); and a 'read only' industry facing interface would be exposed. Services, such as hospitals, or indeed police, etc - could lodge requests to a system with this data. The system would register this information, but give nothing back. The organisation trusted with this information (could be a recognised charity that works with homeless etc) - would be able to, if requested, or required, or at the person's death, be able to access this information. The end result being, a person holding one of these cards would be able to have a medical history, and be able to build up a map of their lives. Such things already exist: social security card, etc. It's a tough problem to crack, once you start to consider the human element.
    - Mz 11y ago
      These are very real and very serious concerns for some homeless individuals. For others, not so much. I think it would be great if the system you describe were available. But I also see nothing wrong with trying to find something simple and easy that works in the here and now for some portion of the homeless population.
- hellofunk 11y ago
  As for relevance, the HN "on topic" guidelines say: >anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. I think this article counts :)
- empressplay 11y ago
  Anxiety and depression are pretty common in the entrepreneur crowd -- these conditions can drive a desire to find independence, some relevance and self-worth. What makes the entrepreneur different from the homeless person is simply a fighting spirit, but sometimes even those with the spirit give up. I guess the point is, we're all people, and we should all get the same help and respect, whether we're the power-driven entrepreneur or the homeless person who just can't deal with it anymore.
- phkahler 11y ago
  "Beautiful story. Not very relative to HN I think..." I've been noticing a number of mental health related things on HN. Perhaps it's because these things hit closer to home among this demographic - weather it be personal experience, or that guy we worked with who eventually broke down. For whatever reason these do get voted up here.
  - tripletmass 11y ago
    Wobbling plates from autism one week, demonstrating the fully armed and operational self-guided self-medicating death-optional star the next. Sure it's not hard dystopian adventure, but if you sit down and write design rules in one mode only, your clone army's going to let you know about the code smell.
SpaghettiCat 11y ago
What kind of society lets a mentally ill man roam the streets, deteriorating, instead of institutionalising him and helping him recover?
- hellofunk 11y ago
  Unfortunately, many, many societies in this world, including the U.S. and most areas in Asia.
- huuu 11y ago
  Unfortunately you would be amazed and ashamed. In the USA it's estimated that one third of the homeless people suffer a serious mental illness. I live in the Netherlands and I think the numbers are the same here. Ofcourse there is help but most homeless people move around a lot so it can be difficult to track them and help them. Also: having worked with homeless people I know for sure they will get some kind of mental illness sooner or later.
  - skrebbel 11y ago
    I always had the idea that homelessness numbers were way higher in the US than in the Netherlands. This helped keep me firmly on my high horse (I'm Dutch too). Was I wrong?
    - Symbiote 11y ago
      According to [1], the Netherlands has about 0.16% homeless people per capita, and the USA 0.50-1.10%. (If I'm comparing figures correctly, since that page has "counted on one night" and "total for the year" for different countries.) It's probably significant that a lot of the US is a lot warmer year-round. [1] https://www.homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/#europe https://www.homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/#eu...
      - zeveb 11y ago
        > It's probably significant that a lot of the US is a lot warmer year-round. Yup, exactly this. It's why there are so many homeless folks in Hawaii: it's easy to live there without shelter. Living in a part of the world where the weather gets cold forces people to make decisions.
Ideabile 11y ago
Really touching story. Nothing to say about.
dpacmittal 11y ago
Very uplifting. Thanks for sharing.
turbostyler 11y ago
Does anyone know why this story is suddenly in the news? I remember reading her original post at least a year ago, which had all of the same photos. Now, I'm seeing it all over Reddit and here. It feels like that Gotye song all over again.
cryoshon 11y ago
Really enjoyed this story, the pictures at the end are very rewarding to see.
kriro 11y ago
I think it's very unethical that she published the initial pictures without consent (from what I understand, sounds like he didn't know the pictures until she showed him when he was better) even if she is a family member and did it "in good faith" and even when he gave her implicit permission after the fact. I also can't help but wonder why she didn't bring him to a hospital when she first saw him in the streets. I'm actually shocked that she basically let him wander around knowing his condition. Thankfully this turned out fine but it leaves me fairly disheartened. Why wasn't he brought to a hospital by someone, people clearly saw him wandering around. I mean I can understand letting him be and live free if you know nothing about him (other people passing by daily) but she knew his condition and should have intervened herself imo.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  She couldn't. You cannot make someone go to a hospital if they aren't harming themselves or others.
  - kriro 11y ago
    Well you can try. From the post it sounds like she "just" (it was obviously not easy) walked away. I don't see that she involved a psychiatrist or tried to get outpatient treatment (whatever that is called in the US) awarded. AFAIK the latter can be gotten if the person is diagnosed and not living safely, I'd say that's certainly possible. http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/legal-resources/hawaii http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/legal-resources/hawai... I'm probably misunderstanding the post but she had no problem publishing the pictures initially and talks a lot about how hard everything was for her. Apart from the happy end there isn't much about "what did I do to change the situation for him". The time spans are odd, seems like she "just" went on with her life and let him wander about until he finally collapsed. Once again I'm not trying to say she's heartless or anything but the post is fairly gut wrenching to read. There's too little information on the concrete steps taken to help him.
    - kaitai 11y ago
      Nope. For your assisted outpatient treatment, for instance, you must show that the person "have a history of non-compliance with treatment that has: been a significant factor in his or her being in a hospital, prison or jail at least twice within the last thirty-six months or [] resulted in one or more acts, attempts or threats of serious violent behavior toward self or others within the last forty-eight months; and be unlikely to voluntarily participate in treatment; and be, in view of his or her treatment history and current behavior, in need of assisted outpatient treatment in order to prevent a relapse or deterioration which would be likely to result in: a substantial risk of physical harm to the patient as manifested by threats of or attempts at suicide or serious bodily harm or conduct demonstrating that the patient is dangerous to himself or herself, or a substantial risk of physical harm to other persons as manifested by homicidal or other violent behavior by which others are placed in reasonable fear of serious physical harm" etc. So if he hasn't showed that he's going to harm himself or someone else, there's no help from our health care system, whether the government or insurance. No one will admit him and no one will pay for it. Trying to forcibly or bodily move the guy would be a crime for the daughter. http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/aot/assisted-outpatient-treatment-guide.html http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/aot/assisted-outpatient-treat...
Thimothy 11y ago
Man, so many comments, so many musings about individual freedom and whatnot, and I have yet to see one that mentions the actual, and IMHU perfectly logical, criteria that mental care institutions use to decide whether to intern someone against their will: "Is this person a serious danger for himself/herself or other people?" Note that it's not the institution the one to make the decision, but a judge. And, also, taking completely someones freedom away is a very extreme measure that will only be considered for really extreme cases, there are a lot of middle grounds, from compulsory regular visits to the doctor to home visits from the doctor. But all of this, is not usually necessary because most of the people that are mentally ill, know that there is something wrong with them and will voluntarily seek treatment. It's at least peculiar than when people from the US are asked about mental healthcare, their visceral reaction is "OMG!!! THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY MY FREEDOM!!!". So much fear, so little idea about how an actual mental care system works. Source: exGF psychiatrist in a western European country with a strong public healthcare network.
- kaitai 11y ago
  In the US though there is a sad twist to this story. I know a family with a mentally ill adult daughter. They have health insurance, but insurance doesn't want to cover "unnecessary treatments." Sometimes when the daughter has had a psychotic episode or another acute difficulty, insurance has not been willing to cover inpatient treatment/overnight stays. On at least one occasion, the family has waited with fear and danger to figure out how she can get treatment, only to get the blessed call from the police: Your daughter hasn't hurt anyone else (yet), but she totaled her car/got caught stealing/got found by police in the street; since we've arrested her and do believe she's a threat to herself or others we can admit her on a 72 hour hold. And now insurance will cover it. When compulsory doctor visits are not working, care is not available to those who need it in the US because of cost and insurance. It's not government taking away our freedom here, and it's a pity more Americans don't see this.
roma1n 11y ago
Her dad apparently made a great recovery; the sad thing is that the event that made it possible is a heart attack, i.e. an organic condition. Shows how little society cares about mental illness IMHO (although free will issues have been pointed out)
Mz 11y ago
I read (or skimmed) most of the comments here first, before reading the article. The content of the article was not what I expected after reading the debate here about whether or not to just lock up "crazy"/homeless people. I am currently homeless. I am not mentally ill. I am medically handicapped. I am very clear what I need. I need an income that does not keep me sick. I find it frustrating to read discussions of this sort. I think a lot of people on the street would be far better off and face far fewer barriers to getting their life back together if there was dramatically less prejudice. Most homeless people are on the street because they have overwhelming personal problems that society does not have good solutions for, not because these individuals are incompetent. Even if you are extraordinarily competent and know exactly what you need and want in order to get your life functional again, the degree to which you face prejudice and people who are dismissive, disrespectful, and controlling makes it an uphill battle, much more so than I think it really needs to be. The baseline difficulties are plenty hard on their own if you have certain conditions. But facing so much social stigma and often offered "help" of a sort that makes you want to scream "Please stop helping me!" while denied access to the kinds of help you actually need, that more middle class people can more readily access, sometimes just for asking because they don't face the same stigma and prejudice -- that alone is pretty crazy making. It usually does not go over well to try to comment on such frustrations. People want to see themselves as good and right and do not want to hear that they are making things harder and are behaving in a classist manner. I am often at a loss as to where can you talk about such things and have it be a productive discussion? I think that really needs to change. If we can change that, then being homeless becomes less of a trap that seems nigh impossible to escape.

244 points by Turukawa 11y ago

Beautiful story. Not very relative to HN I think, but it's good to see the world throught other points of view, sometimes. Thanks for this post.

Turukawa 11y ago
There's an idea by the writer, almost lost in the article, that I thought is brilliant: "When he was in hospital without any documents or ID I came up with the idea of medical bracelets for homeless people. I bought about 100 waterproof USB wristbands which can hold important information and I've given away about 60 so far." There are any number of people made homeless through mental illness. They are often lost in the system when they become critically ill, and such an identifier would help medical professionals to reunite these people with their families.
- draven 11y ago
  I was about to comment about the same thing, it's really brilliant since the medical professionals could also access their medical history in case they land up at a hospital, so that could potentially save lives for a few dollars.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  Couldn't the same thing be done by a wristband with just a shortened weblink. The advantage is you could update the website and the link could be engraved on the wristband.
  - reacweb 11y ago
    tatoo a url ;-)
    - danieltillett 11y ago
      Well not to Godwin the thread I think that might be taking things a bit too far.
      - viewer5 11y ago
        You're Godwinning it pretty hard. Do you have a more lucid and less Godwinny argument than "well, Hitler!" ?
        DanBC 11y ago
        The government tattooing people who have an illness that increases paranoia seems sub-optimal. You'd definitely have people cutting the tattoos off.
    - junto 11y ago
      Surely a tatooed QR code would be the modern day equivalent!
  - austinjp 11y ago
    My thoughts exactly. Also, less to go wrong with engraved metal vs USB bracelet.
  - arethuza 11y ago
    I'd have thought a wristband would be too easy to damage/remove - especially if they become indicators of people in that kind of situation. Similarly I think things like tattoos or embedded chips are spectacularly bad ideas - for all manner of reasons. Maybe retina scans or something like that?
    - danieltillett 11y ago
      You could make the wristband hard to accidentally remove, but if it is made out of a decent metal and engraved then it would not be hard to ensure that it survived. Something like this needs to be voluntary - we really don’t want to be forcing vulnerable people to start wearing something they don’t want to.
- greggman 11y ago
  I applaud your effort. Sticking a usb anything of unknown origin into a most computers is not a good idea tho
- kweks 11y ago
  I work with homeless people, people in precarious situations, people without ID, immigrants without papers, etc. I've discussed this very concept multiple times, from multiple angles, with a few organisations. This issue becomes a real issue of when the person becomes gravely ill, or dies. Most of the time, it's impossible to trace the person's history - contacting next of kin, working out their path until their demise. This is a real problem to solve. However, the practical aspects are that this device needs to be non-identifying, and needs also to be non-exploitable by third parties (in particular: police). Many people without papers are already in a situation that's difficult enough as it is, but this would be made even more difficult by giving police / other authorities a tool to trace, track, and punish. Likewise, many people in these situations do not WANT to be found, or do not WANT to carry papers. The conclusion that I had come to would be that these devices are completely encrypted, and provide no form of external data (ID, etc); and a 'read only' industry facing interface would be exposed. Services, such as hospitals, or indeed police, etc - could lodge requests to a system with this data. The system would register this information, but give nothing back. The organisation trusted with this information (could be a recognised charity that works with homeless etc) - would be able to, if requested, or required, or at the person's death, be able to access this information. The end result being, a person holding one of these cards would be able to have a medical history, and be able to build up a map of their lives. Such things already exist: social security card, etc. It's a tough problem to crack, once you start to consider the human element.
  - Mz 11y ago
    These are very real and very serious concerns for some homeless individuals. For others, not so much. I think it would be great if the system you describe were available. But I also see nothing wrong with trying to find something simple and easy that works in the here and now for some portion of the homeless population.
hellofunk 11y ago
As for relevance, the HN "on topic" guidelines say: >anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. I think this article counts :)
empressplay 11y ago
Anxiety and depression are pretty common in the entrepreneur crowd -- these conditions can drive a desire to find independence, some relevance and self-worth. What makes the entrepreneur different from the homeless person is simply a fighting spirit, but sometimes even those with the spirit give up. I guess the point is, we're all people, and we should all get the same help and respect, whether we're the power-driven entrepreneur or the homeless person who just can't deal with it anymore.
phkahler 11y ago
"Beautiful story. Not very relative to HN I think..." I've been noticing a number of mental health related things on HN. Perhaps it's because these things hit closer to home among this demographic - weather it be personal experience, or that guy we worked with who eventually broke down. For whatever reason these do get voted up here.
- tripletmass 11y ago
  Wobbling plates from autism one week, demonstrating the fully armed and operational self-guided self-medicating death-optional star the next. Sure it's not hard dystopian adventure, but if you sit down and write design rules in one mode only, your clone army's going to let you know about the code smell.

SpaghettiCat 11y ago

What kind of society lets a mentally ill man roam the streets, deteriorating, instead of institutionalising him and helping him recover?

hellofunk 11y ago
Unfortunately, many, many societies in this world, including the U.S. and most areas in Asia.
huuu 11y ago
Unfortunately you would be amazed and ashamed. In the USA it's estimated that one third of the homeless people suffer a serious mental illness. I live in the Netherlands and I think the numbers are the same here. Ofcourse there is help but most homeless people move around a lot so it can be difficult to track them and help them. Also: having worked with homeless people I know for sure they will get some kind of mental illness sooner or later.
- skrebbel 11y ago
  I always had the idea that homelessness numbers were way higher in the US than in the Netherlands. This helped keep me firmly on my high horse (I'm Dutch too). Was I wrong?
  - Symbiote 11y ago
    According to [1], the Netherlands has about 0.16% homeless people per capita, and the USA 0.50-1.10%. (If I'm comparing figures correctly, since that page has "counted on one night" and "total for the year" for different countries.) It's probably significant that a lot of the US is a lot warmer year-round. [1] https://www.homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/#europe https://www.homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/#eu...
    - zeveb 11y ago
      > It's probably significant that a lot of the US is a lot warmer year-round. Yup, exactly this. It's why there are so many homeless folks in Hawaii: it's easy to live there without shelter. Living in a part of the world where the weather gets cold forces people to make decisions.

Ideabile 11y ago

Really touching story. Nothing to say about.

dpacmittal 11y ago

Very uplifting. Thanks for sharing.

turbostyler 11y ago

Does anyone know why this story is suddenly in the news? I remember reading her original post at least a year ago, which had all of the same photos. Now, I'm seeing it all over Reddit and here. It feels like that Gotye song all over again.

cryoshon 11y ago

Really enjoyed this story, the pictures at the end are very rewarding to see.

kriro 11y ago

I think it's very unethical that she published the initial pictures without consent (from what I understand, sounds like he didn't know the pictures until she showed him when he was better) even if she is a family member and did it "in good faith" and even when he gave her implicit permission after the fact. I also can't help but wonder why she didn't bring him to a hospital when she first saw him in the streets. I'm actually shocked that she basically let him wander around knowing his condition. Thankfully this turned out fine but it leaves me fairly disheartened. Why wasn't he brought to a hospital by someone, people clearly saw him wandering around. I mean I can understand letting him be and live free if you know nothing about him (other people passing by daily) but she knew his condition and should have intervened herself imo.

chris_wot 11y ago
She couldn't. You cannot make someone go to a hospital if they aren't harming themselves or others.
- kriro 11y ago
  Well you can try. From the post it sounds like she "just" (it was obviously not easy) walked away. I don't see that she involved a psychiatrist or tried to get outpatient treatment (whatever that is called in the US) awarded. AFAIK the latter can be gotten if the person is diagnosed and not living safely, I'd say that's certainly possible. http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/legal-resources/hawaii http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/legal-resources/hawai... I'm probably misunderstanding the post but she had no problem publishing the pictures initially and talks a lot about how hard everything was for her. Apart from the happy end there isn't much about "what did I do to change the situation for him". The time spans are odd, seems like she "just" went on with her life and let him wander about until he finally collapsed. Once again I'm not trying to say she's heartless or anything but the post is fairly gut wrenching to read. There's too little information on the concrete steps taken to help him.
  - kaitai 11y ago
    Nope. For your assisted outpatient treatment, for instance, you must show that the person "have a history of non-compliance with treatment that has: been a significant factor in his or her being in a hospital, prison or jail at least twice within the last thirty-six months or [] resulted in one or more acts, attempts or threats of serious violent behavior toward self or others within the last forty-eight months; and be unlikely to voluntarily participate in treatment; and be, in view of his or her treatment history and current behavior, in need of assisted outpatient treatment in order to prevent a relapse or deterioration which would be likely to result in: a substantial risk of physical harm to the patient as manifested by threats of or attempts at suicide or serious bodily harm or conduct demonstrating that the patient is dangerous to himself or herself, or a substantial risk of physical harm to other persons as manifested by homicidal or other violent behavior by which others are placed in reasonable fear of serious physical harm" etc. So if he hasn't showed that he's going to harm himself or someone else, there's no help from our health care system, whether the government or insurance. No one will admit him and no one will pay for it. Trying to forcibly or bodily move the guy would be a crime for the daughter. http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/aot/assisted-outpatient-treatment-guide.html http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/aot/assisted-outpatient-treat...

Thimothy 11y ago

Man, so many comments, so many musings about individual freedom and whatnot, and I have yet to see one that mentions the actual, and IMHU perfectly logical, criteria that mental care institutions use to decide whether to intern someone against their will: "Is this person a serious danger for himself/herself or other people?" Note that it's not the institution the one to make the decision, but a judge. And, also, taking completely someones freedom away is a very extreme measure that will only be considered for really extreme cases, there are a lot of middle grounds, from compulsory regular visits to the doctor to home visits from the doctor. But all of this, is not usually necessary because most of the people that are mentally ill, know that there is something wrong with them and will voluntarily seek treatment. It's at least peculiar than when people from the US are asked about mental healthcare, their visceral reaction is "OMG!!! THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY MY FREEDOM!!!". So much fear, so little idea about how an actual mental care system works. Source: exGF psychiatrist in a western European country with a strong public healthcare network.

kaitai 11y ago
In the US though there is a sad twist to this story. I know a family with a mentally ill adult daughter. They have health insurance, but insurance doesn't want to cover "unnecessary treatments." Sometimes when the daughter has had a psychotic episode or another acute difficulty, insurance has not been willing to cover inpatient treatment/overnight stays. On at least one occasion, the family has waited with fear and danger to figure out how she can get treatment, only to get the blessed call from the police: Your daughter hasn't hurt anyone else (yet), but she totaled her car/got caught stealing/got found by police in the street; since we've arrested her and do believe she's a threat to herself or others we can admit her on a 72 hour hold. And now insurance will cover it. When compulsory doctor visits are not working, care is not available to those who need it in the US because of cost and insurance. It's not government taking away our freedom here, and it's a pity more Americans don't see this.

roma1n 11y ago

Her dad apparently made a great recovery; the sad thing is that the event that made it possible is a heart attack, i.e. an organic condition. Shows how little society cares about mental illness IMHO (although free will issues have been pointed out)

Mz 11y ago

I read (or skimmed) most of the comments here first, before reading the article. The content of the article was not what I expected after reading the debate here about whether or not to just lock up "crazy"/homeless people. I am currently homeless. I am not mentally ill. I am medically handicapped. I am very clear what I need. I need an income that does not keep me sick. I find it frustrating to read discussions of this sort. I think a lot of people on the street would be far better off and face far fewer barriers to getting their life back together if there was dramatically less prejudice. Most homeless people are on the street because they have overwhelming personal problems that society does not have good solutions for, not because these individuals are incompetent. Even if you are extraordinarily competent and know exactly what you need and want in order to get your life functional again, the degree to which you face prejudice and people who are dismissive, disrespectful, and controlling makes it an uphill battle, much more so than I think it really needs to be. The baseline difficulties are plenty hard on their own if you have certain conditions. But facing so much social stigma and often offered "help" of a sort that makes you want to scream "Please stop helping me!" while denied access to the kinds of help you actually need, that more middle class people can more readily access, sometimes just for asking because they don't face the same stigma and prejudice -- that alone is pretty crazy making. It usually does not go over well to try to comment on such frustrations. People want to see themselves as good and right and do not want to hear that they are making things harder and are behaving in a classist manner. I am often at a loss as to where can you talk about such things and have it be a productive discussion? I think that really needs to change. If we can change that, then being homeless becomes less of a trap that seems nigh impossible to escape.