6 ms·

His book Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World had a big effect on me and was my first contact with anthropology. I really enjoyed how Girard theoriz

His book Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World had a big effect on me and was my first contact with anthropology. I really enjoyed how Girard theorized what made us human in the first place (namely, rituals).

agumonkey 11y ago
Noob question, I suppose anthropology is a descriptive science, did it lead to theories about transcending human nature ? for instance avoiding (or at least attempting) social scapegoating.
- fwdbureau 11y ago
  I'm going to over-simplify, but according to Girard, the greatest social attempt to avoid scapegoating and civilize human nature has been christianity. The figure of the Christ, and his sacrifice, was a smart operation to replace real scapegoats by a symbolic one, allowing the community to unite against an innocent without having to kill anyone. This has been successful for centuries, but it's interesting to note that in his latest books, Girard sounds pretty disillusioned about this. "Achever Clausewitz" (strangely translated in english by "Battling to the end") is quite a frightening apocalyptic book that I would recommend to anyone interested in Girard's work.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    Very interesting, I tried to theorized the Christ idea, but never thought of it as a safety valve. So far all I got was the 'took our sins' as quick path to an everloving alter ego that can empathize with anybody since he sinned too. ps: Achever clausewitz sounds like a bad portemanteau. I guess on purpose.
  - binarymax 11y ago
    I challenge that it has been successful. Many people have been slain in the name of christ.
    - marincounty 11y ago
      Yea, you're right. I just wonder what society will look like without all the oral literature, mythology, folklore, fact-- for some, becomes really fashionable? I just don't think human beings are born moral, and I've met more than a few individuals who should spend a Sunday in church, and leave the filthy lookers club--just for a few Sundays. Just kidding with the lookers; not kidding about dudes who pride themself's on making it to the top of the shit pile, at any cost. And I've meet too many of those guys lately. I don't find them clever, cool, or hip. I sometimes visualize a Roman Emperor, like Constantine, looking over society, and thinking, 'I need to control the debachery that's getting out of hand.' (Just found out that Emperor Constantine had nothing to do with the formation of the canon. I always though he did?)
      - binarymax 11y ago
        Humans are not born moral because morality is a human intellectual construct and is taught. Nature, without humanity, is neither moral nor amoral, it is just nature. I agree with Girards postulation that sameness begets violence because there is always non-uniformity, and those who seek to control and organise want uniformity (sometimes violently). I do wonder if there would be less violence not with the abolishment of all religion, but with the abolishment of all but one.
        coldtea 11y ago
        >umans are not born moral because morality is a human intellectual construct and is taught. Nature, without humanity, is neither moral nor amoral, it is just nature. That's not exactly accurate. For one, animals are also capable of handling "intellectual constructs" (even if less complex) and teaching them to their offspring or herd. Some starters: http://www.amazon.com/Can-Animals-Moral-Mark-Rowlands/dp/019024030X http://www.amazon.com/Can-Animals-Moral-Mark-Rowlands/dp/019... http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Lives-Animals-Dale-Peterson/dp/1608193462 http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Lives-Animals-Dale-Peterson/dp/1...
        keane 11y ago

agumonkey 11y ago

Noob question, I suppose anthropology is a descriptive science, did it lead to theories about transcending human nature ? for instance avoiding (or at least attempting) social scapegoating.

fwdbureau 11y ago
I'm going to over-simplify, but according to Girard, the greatest social attempt to avoid scapegoating and civilize human nature has been christianity. The figure of the Christ, and his sacrifice, was a smart operation to replace real scapegoats by a symbolic one, allowing the community to unite against an innocent without having to kill anyone. This has been successful for centuries, but it's interesting to note that in his latest books, Girard sounds pretty disillusioned about this. "Achever Clausewitz" (strangely translated in english by "Battling to the end") is quite a frightening apocalyptic book that I would recommend to anyone interested in Girard's work.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  Very interesting, I tried to theorized the Christ idea, but never thought of it as a safety valve. So far all I got was the 'took our sins' as quick path to an everloving alter ego that can empathize with anybody since he sinned too. ps: Achever clausewitz sounds like a bad portemanteau. I guess on purpose.
- binarymax 11y ago
  I challenge that it has been successful. Many people have been slain in the name of christ.
  - marincounty 11y ago
    Yea, you're right. I just wonder what society will look like without all the oral literature, mythology, folklore, fact-- for some, becomes really fashionable? I just don't think human beings are born moral, and I've met more than a few individuals who should spend a Sunday in church, and leave the filthy lookers club--just for a few Sundays. Just kidding with the lookers; not kidding about dudes who pride themself's on making it to the top of the shit pile, at any cost. And I've meet too many of those guys lately. I don't find them clever, cool, or hip. I sometimes visualize a Roman Emperor, like Constantine, looking over society, and thinking, 'I need to control the debachery that's getting out of hand.' (Just found out that Emperor Constantine had nothing to do with the formation of the canon. I always though he did?)
    - binarymax 11y ago
      Humans are not born moral because morality is a human intellectual construct and is taught. Nature, without humanity, is neither moral nor amoral, it is just nature. I agree with Girards postulation that sameness begets violence because there is always non-uniformity, and those who seek to control and organise want uniformity (sometimes violently). I do wonder if there would be less violence not with the abolishment of all religion, but with the abolishment of all but one.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        >umans are not born moral because morality is a human intellectual construct and is taught. Nature, without humanity, is neither moral nor amoral, it is just nature. That's not exactly accurate. For one, animals are also capable of handling "intellectual constructs" (even if less complex) and teaching them to their offspring or herd. Some starters: http://www.amazon.com/Can-Animals-Moral-Mark-Rowlands/dp/019024030X http://www.amazon.com/Can-Animals-Moral-Mark-Rowlands/dp/019... http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Lives-Animals-Dale-Peterson/dp/1608193462 http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Lives-Animals-Dale-Peterson/dp/1...
        keane 11y ago