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you know what the last bastion against this autocratic movement is? Yup, the European Court of Justice, backed by all those highly-worded treaties. Lose that, a

you know what the last bastion against this autocratic movement is? Yup, the European Court of Justice, backed by all those highly-worded treaties. Lose that, and you'll get back being hostage of your national elites. Yet here we are, anyway. Remind me which government gave us the Data Retention Directive?

henrikschroder 11y ago
Vote Pirate in the EU elections.
toyg 11y ago
And which tribunal struck it down? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive : > On 8 April 2014, the Court of Justice of the European Union declared the Directive invalid in response to a case brought by Digital Rights Ireland against the Irish authorities and others. If the Snooper's Charter makes it through, the ECJ is the only hope to strike it down and keep it down, considering how Labour is hardly free of authoritarian tendencies. That's the truth, as uncomfortable as it might be for eurosceptics.
- MistahKoala 11y ago
  And which tribunal struck it down? Only several years late, of course. It's a bit weak to suggest that the EU is our saviour when it comes surveillance. I'd rather place my faith in the ECtHR.
  - toyg 11y ago
    No, I'm just saying that removing the EU layer you lose another chance of fighting against the current (and/or future) wave of power-crazy national elites.
    - MistahKoala 11y ago
      I don't see how a supranational government is any better than a national one, though. If anything, they're more remote and intransigent, and pretty much have a revolving door between the two. I trust neither when it comes to this issue.
      - toyg 11y ago
        The EU is historically influenced by "virtuous" countries, which have little interest in signing bad laws; "bad" countries benefit as a result. The European Parliament, with its proportional representation system and loose alliances, can often be more easily influenced on big, visible issues, than the hardcore-conservative first-past-post Westminster (where party loyalty is paramount). The EU is not perfect (the Commission in particular is the root of a lot of "evil" activity), but if you believe in checks and balances, it's yet another power you can appeal to when things look dire on the home front.

henrikschroder 11y ago

Vote Pirate in the EU elections.

toyg 11y ago

And which tribunal struck it down? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive : > On 8 April 2014, the Court of Justice of the European Union declared the Directive invalid in response to a case brought by Digital Rights Ireland against the Irish authorities and others. If the Snooper's Charter makes it through, the ECJ is the only hope to strike it down and keep it down, considering how Labour is hardly free of authoritarian tendencies. That's the truth, as uncomfortable as it might be for eurosceptics.

MistahKoala 11y ago
And which tribunal struck it down? Only several years late, of course. It's a bit weak to suggest that the EU is our saviour when it comes surveillance. I'd rather place my faith in the ECtHR.
- toyg 11y ago
  No, I'm just saying that removing the EU layer you lose another chance of fighting against the current (and/or future) wave of power-crazy national elites.
  - MistahKoala 11y ago
    I don't see how a supranational government is any better than a national one, though. If anything, they're more remote and intransigent, and pretty much have a revolving door between the two. I trust neither when it comes to this issue.
    - toyg 11y ago
      The EU is historically influenced by "virtuous" countries, which have little interest in signing bad laws; "bad" countries benefit as a result. The European Parliament, with its proportional representation system and loose alliances, can often be more easily influenced on big, visible issues, than the hardcore-conservative first-past-post Westminster (where party loyalty is paramount). The EU is not perfect (the Commission in particular is the root of a lot of "evil" activity), but if you believe in checks and balances, it's yet another power you can appeal to when things look dire on the home front.